Republicans Push $269 Billion Handout For Milliona

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Originalist

I think these are allot of apples and oranges comparisons.

How do we compare of country of 300 million to countries with less population than many of our States.?

Take Denmark, for instance. It has a population of 5,659,715. Corporations pay no taxes and thus jobs are abundant. But the citizen pays 80% of his income in taxes in exchange for free education, medical and housing. Okay. Fine. That might work in a country of 5 million. That will not work here.

The USA's constitution was designed to keep 90% of the power at a State level. Over the years the Feds have illegally taken most of the power away from the States, assuming duties that are bankrupting the country. If we operated as the Founders intended, with the States in charge of their own affairs, then perhaps each State could creatively come with systems that would best work in each State. As long as we have this "ultra-nationalist" concept, we will struggle. A nation of 300 million is too large to govern. A Federal Republic of 50 small republics is much easier to manage.

I dunno about you but in addition to the 30% taxes (you have to double your SS rate that your company pays for you) I was already paying - 50% went to the above anyway. So what was left is disposable income? I actually believe that's a pretty good deal.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

http://youtu.be/0E-URmNAa5o

Watch and learn grasshopper Master Friedman deconstructs a young socialist.

Deconstruct yourself. Your first round of medicare expenses are going to chew up everything you ever put into the system. I'm not so stupid that I believe that just because I paid 2-3% of my income I satisfy the requirement to pay my own way. You probably paid for one hospital stay, after which your fellows will pay the rest.

So I opted out. No more SS, no more medicare for me.

So who's the socialist? I would prefer you just say thank you and use your savings to pay your own way rather than raise our social security taxes annually to make up for what you, and your generation, did not pay. If you want to buy the right to throw around the word "socialist" send that letter to Washington, opt out, then come back in.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Originalist

I think these are allot of apples and oranges comparisons.

How do we compare of country of 300 million to countries with less population than many of our States.?

Take Denmark, for instance. It has a population of 5,659,715. Corporations pay no taxes and thus jobs are abundant. But the citizen pays 80% of his income in taxes in exchange for free education, medical and housing. Okay. Fine. That might work in a country of 5 million. That will not work here.

The USA's constitution was designed to keep 90% of the power at a State level. Over the years the Feds have illegally taken most of the power away from the States, assuming duties that are bankrupting the country. If we operated as the Founders intended, with the States in charge of their own affairs, then perhaps each State could creatively come with systems that would best work in each State. As long as we have this "ultra-nationalist" concept, we will struggle. A nation of 300 million is too large to govern. A Federal Republic of 50 small republics is much easier to manage.

Look at the handclap you got for your "excellent point". There is no need to give me a lesson on taxes. I choose where to address my bank based on taxes.

You've been snookered if you believe what you posted above.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s_by_tax_rates

See? The United States falls between Sweden and Canada in terms of tax rates and tax burdens. The difference between them and you is that once they pay that's it - no claims to file, no copays, no in-network and out-of network, no need to pay for your retirement - for you, after you pay, you still have to pay again. For them, after they pay, it's paid and that's that.

So add up what you pay today, including your healthcare costs, taxes, social security, everything, and compare your costs as share of income to theirs.

If you do you will realize that you are NOT better off, no matter what the "conservatives" are telling you.

The corporate tax in Denmark is 23%. That's a long, long way from (zero). Kindly check your sources before you blurt out something that someone heard from Fox News.

OH and - before you bore me with some magical discussion of the superb healthcare in the US - remember that people in every single one of these countries, on average, outlive Americans too. In terms of lifespan, America has achieved surpassing Chile, where you can't drink the tap water. Good work and God Bless America. BUT: do not wave healthcare standards unless you bring some data that says that the standards you wave mean you live longer. If you show up at a superb hospital in the US with no insurance and no money the first thing they are going to do is dump you in an ambulance and send you somewhere else (or drop you across town).

Something's wrong if we believe it's cheaper to process claims, skim premiums, and maintain a vast network of people who pass papers back and forth than it is to build the facilities, buy the supplies, and pay the doctors directly as public healthcare systems do. Something's wrong if we believe we are better off "prescribing" everything in sight rather than opening the pharmacy directly to the consumer like the rest of the world does. Specific example: It's nuts to process two claims and use a doctor for an antibiotic or an asthma inhaler.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

<yawn>

I hear you. My own wife used to think the US was great too. Until she got there.
Now she sees people in the US as nothing but slaves to their employers.

"I never thought America was a place where if you simply take a day off, you risk losing your job. I thought it was a good place for families. Now, I know it's just a place to make money and go home."

Had a kid from India working for me a couple years ago. In 2013 he built a house there (in India). He was banking every cent he could - back in India. He seemed to have figured it out too.

The US might be a great destination for coming to work, but it isn't even in the top 10 as a place to retire. Barely makes the top 20.

I'm no Lib and I certainly have the tax bill that gives me the right to comment about what should be done with taxes, unlike about half of you. Something's badly wrong with your "we are the world's immigrant destination" view when people in need and poverty want to work there but people who are savvy and financially independent won't touch your soil.

http://business.financialpost.com/bu...he-top-8-spots

The U.S. placed 19th out of the 150 nations analyzed for the second year in a row, though it scored higher year over year in all four broad categories. Despite ranking sixth highest in per capita income and first in per capita health care expenditures, the U.S. ranks 33rd for life expectancy and relatively low (81st) for income inequality.

Since all of the countries on my list above outrank the US, I would guess that the mentioned "failure" might be imaginary.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Look at the handclap you got for your "excellent point". There is no need to give me a lesson on taxes. I choose where to address my bank based on taxes.

You've been snookered if you believe what you posted above.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s_by_tax_rates

See? The United States falls between Sweden and Canada in terms of tax rates and tax burdens. The difference between them and you is that once they pay that's it - no claims to file, no copays, no in-network and out-of network, no need to pay for your retirement - for you, after you pay, you still have to pay again. For them, after they pay, it's paid and that's that.

So add up what you pay today, including your healthcare costs, taxes, social security, everything, and compare your costs as share of income to theirs.

If you do you will realize that you are NOT better off, no matter what the "conservatives" are telling you.

The corporate tax in Denmark is 23%. That's a long, long way from (zero). Kindly check your sources before you blurt out something that someone heard from Fox News.

OH and - before you bore me with some magical discussion of the superb healthcare in the US - remember that people in every single one of these countries, on average, outlive Americans too. In terms of lifespan, America has achieved surpassing Chile, where you can't drink the tap water. Good work and God Bless America. BUT: do not wave healthcare standards unless you bring some data that says that the standards you wave mean you live longer. If you show up at a superb hospital in the US with no insurance and no money the first thing they are going to do is dump you in an ambulance and send you somewhere else (or drop you across town).

Something's wrong if we believe it's cheaper to process claims, skim premiums, and maintain a vast network of people who pass papers back and forth than it is to build the facilities, buy the supplies, and pay the doctors directly as public healthcare systems do. Something's wrong if we believe we are better off "prescribing" everything in sight rather than opening the pharmacy directly to the consumer like the rest of the world does. Specific example: It's nuts to process two claims and use a doctor for an antibiotic or an asthma inhaler.

I don't think you even read my post. I'm simply saying that a country of 300 million is too large to compare to a country with a couple of million. I say that for the benefit for those who want us to "be like Europe". Each State should get to decide for itself how much like Europe it wants to be. We cannot have a "one size fits all" system in a Union of 50 States.

As for my corporate tax rate attributed to Denmark. I got most of my information from a citizen of that country. If I was wrong on that point, then it actually makes things much worse for Denmark.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Originalist

I don't think you even read my post. I'm simply saying that a country of 300 million is too large to compare to a country with a couple of million. I say that for the benefit for those who want us to "be like Europe". Each State should get to decide for itself how much like Europe it wants to be. We cannot have a "one size fits all" system in a Union of 50 States.

As for my corporate tax rate attributed to Denmark. I got most of my information from a citizen of that country. If I was wrong on that point, then it actually makes things much worse for Denmark.

I read your post. We already have inequity between states and services. Not working. Medicare is working but subject to fraud because of per service item billing. So we do have a one size fits all system. What we need to do is trade in the for-profit hospitals and insurance companies for a decent healthcare system. Add the cost of insurance to what we already pay and we far outstrip healthcare spending compared to anyone on the planet. Vast sums of profits are being made in the name of "healthcare" and profit on health needs is about as anti-christ as it gets. Hope not too many of you are proponents of the existing system. Billing for each component of each service needs to stop in favor of well-paid providers and funded supplies and equipment. When services are not individually billed there is no possibility of fraud and no need to have thousands of people processing thousands of records. That is how the system works here. Highly paid doctors and nurses, lavishly equipped and supplied facilities, and zero billing with minimal overhead is what keeps costs down. Its working.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

What we need to do is trade in the for-profit hospitals and insurance companies for a decent healthcare system.

Who is we? Again, why not return to the Constitution and allow each State decide what is best for them? What makes that so bad? Why would you want one city to decide the medical well-being of 300 million people? You say we already have a one size fits all, then you claim there is inequality between States. Which is it? Why do you want to see people in a neighboring State forced to conform to what you think is best for them?

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Who is we? Again, why not return to the Constitution and allow each State decide what is best for them? What makes that so bad? Why would you want one city to decide the medical well-being of 300 million people? You say we already have a one size fits all, then you claim there is inequality between States. Which is it? Why do you want to see people in a neighboring State forced to conform to what you think is best for them?

Why? Because turning healthcare over to boardrooms whose sole purpose is to collect as much money as possible while providing as little service as possible isnt working.
The one size fits all applies to retirees. The inequitable services apply to state-funded services. The boardroom decision making applies to everyone in between. Its not working. Other countries have working systems that are not masses of convoluted service codes and paperwork and that do not have to answer to shareholders. Thats why.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Why? Because turning healthcare over to boardrooms whose sole purpose is to collect as much money as possible while providing as little service as possible isnt working.
The one size fits all applies to retirees. The inequitable services apply to state-funded services. The boardroom decision making applies to everyone in between. Its not working. Other countries have working systems that are not masses of convoluted service codes and paperwork and that do not have to answer to shareholders. Thats why.

So what's the best way to control this, locally or through some mass Federal agency who is really responsible for what you describe to begin with?

Nationalism has caused this. Federalism and the Constitution will cure it. But don't let the federal government run something and then expect them not to be owned by cronies.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Originalist

So what's the best way to control this, locally or through some mass Federal agency who is really responsible for what you describe to begin with?

Nationalism has caused this. Federalism and the Constitution will cure it. But don't let the federal government run something and then expect them not to be owned by cronies.

The entire system of for-profit hospitals and for-profit insurance companies is already owned by cronies. The difference is what it costs us. Bribery and cheating can be legislated out of a public system if the same penalties are applied to those crimes as are applied to drug or violent crimes. Right now they are not.