Deep Apostolic Teachers?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Because were all OPs or former OPs.

I'm just an O not really a P.

So you're an outty not an inny?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Your are saying tithe rhetoric. We must teach about tithing in some form because it is Bible. You are correct that it isn't commanded prior to the book of Acts, but does that mean when I teach through the old testament I skip them scriptures. I agree with you when you say tithing is an old testament law that shouldn't be forced upon people or else, but the method of tithing has made a way for many to be saved. We have had several filled with the Holy Ghost in our church the last several weeks and I can say that people that tithe actually helped make that possible and I have already posted my approach to the subject. You may say just let everyone give how they feel, but unless you give someone examples a lot of times people will not know where to start. I am not saying I go around telling people you must pay tithes to go to heaven, but we must serve the Lord in our giving. I don't want to be guilty of not teaching about generous giving with old testament examples when many are just plain greedy. I don't teach the way I do for personal gain. I find my self pouring a lot of my own finances into people who that only not tithe, but they don't even give anything. If people were pulling the terminology out of the air I would say be strong in your belief, but they have built the doctrine of tithing out of the scripture even if you think it is misapplied. The act of tithing you your self say that isn't wrong. You said earlier you just go against those teaching it. I personally don't believe anyone has ever backslid or denied God because of this teaching even if it isn't a new testament teaching. If people turned and walked away from Jesus because they have to give ten percent they will never make it because really God requires 100%.

Brother, please dont be naive here(respectfully). Tithing has caused countless millions over the centuries, even until now, to stumble and fall in their faith...saved or unsaved. It CANNOT be justified by saying many came in recently.(they have just replaced the ones that could not make it because of tithing...it is a large part of the "revolving door" of pentecost)

Did "tithing" bring them in, or just money being given in general?

Brother, the world thinks that folks that tithe are "nuts". And in a way, they are nuts.

I know, because I did it for several years in the beginning stages of my faith and folks all around said I was nuts....Looking back, I was...LOL

The world knew that I obeyed man blindly, that tithing was NOT biblical for N.T. believers and I just stuck my fingers in my ears when they tried to warn me it was wrong. I finally started opening my eyes and ears and attempted to see what they were telling me.

Anyone that believes man over the word of God IS nuts....Been there, done that bro.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Sometimes you have to read the context, understand the figures of speech and see the message rather than isolate one verse out of context and go by that

Now, Acts says nothing about an empty room where nobody can see them

It says they laid the stuff at the Apostles feet

Act 4:33 With great power the apostles were giving testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great grace was on them all.
Act 4:34 For there was no one needy among them, because those who were owners of land or houses were selling them and bringing the proceeds from the sales
Act 4:35 and placing them at the apostles' feet. The proceeds were distributed to each, as anyone had need.


Prax, The Apostles feet, not the whole congregation...

Remember the widow women who threw in her last dollar? Jesus and the Apostles all saw it.

Prax, this was in the Jewish temple, under the Law. Not in the early church...

I can give without letting anyone know the amount. It's still a secret.

Its not a secret when your brother sees you "march" up to the altar or put your money in a basket...You are part of the "intimidation to give" process...

If we take what you are claiming it means, then there can never be public prayer. We have to pray all alone...in secret

Not at all, Jesus wants us to PRAY in a secret place, first and foremost. However, we see collective prayer in the early church, but we have no evidence of offerings done in a congregational setting. That is a "modern" method, and contrary to the model of giving set by Jesus and the Apostles in the early church.



Mat 6:5 "Whenever you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, because they love to pray while standing in synagogues and on street corners so that people can see them. Truly I say to you, they have their reward.
Mat 6:6 But whenever you pray, go into your room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret. And your Father, who sees in secret, will reward you.

Jesus was addressing an attitude. We see Public prayer many times. Even Jesus did not always pray alone

As I said above Prax....(believe it or not, there are churches that actually practice "secret giving", using a safe in the foyer to keep the visibility of giving on the low). One thing that greatly differs between giving money from prayer is when you dont have ANY money, you can always be "rich" in prayer. One is "mammon" and one is "spiritual". One you work for or inherit, the other(prayer) is a "free gift" or "ability" for anyone, rich or poor, from God.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Sean

As I said above Prax....(believe it or not, there are churches that actually practice "secret giving", using a safe in the foyer to keep the giving on the low.

We have a drop box at the back of the sanctuary but not necessarily do people give in secret (it is still in the sanctuary after all) but so that people don't feel pressure to give. (Such as when churches pass the plate or ask people to bring their offerings to the front).

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

We have a drop box at the back of the sanctuary but not necessarily do people give in secret (it is still in the sanctuary after all) but so that people don't feel pressure to give. (Such as when churches pass the plate or ask people to bring their offerings to the front).

Thats awesome my brother!

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Sean

Brother, please dont be naive here(respectfully). Tithing has caused countless millions over the centuries, even until now, to stumble and fall in their faith...saved or unsaved. It CANNOT be justified by saying many came in recently.(they have just replaced the ones that could not make it because of tithing...it is a large part of the "revolving door" of pentecost)

Did "tithing" bring them in, or just money being given in general?

Brother, the world thinks that folks that tithe are "nuts". And in a way, they are nuts.

I know, because I did it for several years in the beginning stages of my faith and folks all around said I was nuts....Looking back, I was...LOL

The world knew that I obeyed man blindly, that tithing was NOT biblical for N.T. believers and I just stuck my fingers in my ears when they tried to warn me it was wrong. I finally started opening my eyes and ears and attempted to see what they were telling me.

Anyone that believes man over the word of God IS nuts....Been there, done that bro.

I am glad you are so enlightened.

[Steve Epley]

Folks were dancing and shouting tonite as they were bringing their tithes and offerings. Was a sight to behold.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Folks were dancing and shouting tonite as they were bringing their tithes and offerings. Was a sight to behold.

Great! Because the best way for Pentecostals to judge whether or not something is of God is the external reaction.


That's why people have to ask where they can find deep apostolic teaching, because so much apostolic church is empty emotionalism. A good Sunday night high but not practical to be stomping on the devils head all week. People need some meat.

Also, people shouted and danced as they threw money at Creflo Dollar and Leroy Thompson's feet while they danced in it. People are gullible, especially in a group setting that gives way to fanatical emotionalism.

[Michael The Disciple]

Yes friends tithing is a doctrinal error of the Churches today. And yet to give to the cause of Christ is a wonderful thing. I have always felt 10% was a good guideline for giving. I have actually heard more than one preacher teach you will go to Hell if you miss it by one penny!

Let us not despise the offering of the Lord because of the false teaching out there. And I hope before I die I will be able to point out truly deeper word Apostolic Teachers.

Indeed the Oneness message along with Acts 2:38 seems deep compared with the Evangelical Churches but there is a lot of BIG truth to still come to to make us truly "Apostolic".

[good samaritan]

Someone very close to me was refilled with the Holy Ghost after being away from God tonight. Tithing wasn't ever an issue with them. Matter of fact of my short 32 years of life I haven't heard of one person leaving because they felt forced to tithe. I believe the number one reason I have seen people backslide is over man and women relationships and getting disgruntled about something they were offended by. I have never one time heard someone say they backslid because they couldn't tithe. I do know people who are not in church who have paid a tithe into a local church who didn't even profess to be a Christian in their walk. They would do it and later testify that they noticed that they were more blessed when they did it. giving cheerfully does work even if it is tithes. I do recommend that people try doing it in faith and see if it changes anything for them.