Re: Will American Christians be persecuted in your
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Originally Posted by votivesoul
That's a popular belief, but God delivered Israel on eagle's wings way back in Exodus, too, several thousand years before the US ever existed (Exodus 19:4). I would be cautious in reading the USA into the Scriptures.
Zechariah 14:2 tells us ALL NATIONS shall be gathered against Jerusalem. So either the US will be a part of that gathering, or else the US will not exist during that time.
Right. I tend to believe the US will be here, but will be aligned against Israel. Perhaps Israel will launch a pre-emptive strike which will turn everyone, including the US against it; or they could cause the same uniting against it by continuing and expanding their settlements against the will of the US and UN.
Re: Will American Christians be persecuted in your
Doomsdayers have been predicting the end for many thousands of years now. The fact is, there's been 'ends' for a number of societies throughout history, with famine, disease and wars. America, except for the destruction of the Native American society, has never really seen trials and tribulations such as much of the world has and that's a problem.
Americans are America-centric, i.e., if it doesn't happen here then it's not happening or isn't that important. Imagine being in Nagasaki or Hiroshima, total and utter destruction. If that had been New York City or Dallas, the doomsdayers would be beside themselves in pointing out the wrath of God that was being poured out. There were over 250,000 people killed in the tsunami a few years ago. Entire villages were washed away, as if they had never existed. Here, that would be God mass killing people for the sins of those living wherever it occurred. Deaths by the thousands occur frequently in Africa through starvation and war. If that occurred here, again the endtimers would be pointing out that God was punishing us, the end is here.
Of course America is going to go through tribulation, the world goes through tribulation. When it comes, people are going to suffer and die. Families will be scattered as has occurred so many many times throughout history. That's the cycle of creation it seems.
But, Christians aren't going to be singled out and persecuted. That's an irrational fear that has it's roots in the fearmongering of the Christian media. Fear sells well.
Re: Will American Christians be persecuted in your
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Originally Posted by seekerman
But, Christians aren't going to be singled out and persecuted. That's an irrational fear that has it's roots in the fearmongering of the Christian media. Fear sells well.
So you don't believe the NT teaches that christians should expect persecution because of their faith? Or that the 'world hates God and His people'?
Or was all that just 'for them, back then, and not us today'?
Re: Will American Christians be persecuted in your
Quote:
Originally Posted by votivesoul
That's a popular belief, but God delivered Israel on eagle's wings way back in Exodus, too, several thousand years before the US ever existed (Exodus 19:4). I would be cautious in reading the USA into the Scriptures.
Zechariah 14:2 tells us ALL NATIONS shall be gathered against Jerusalem. So either the US will be a part of that gathering, or else the US will not exist during that time.
I would be cautious in reading America out of the Scriptures, too. Although I don't buy the 'eagles wings = America' nonsense, I do believe America is foretold in prophecy and still has a destiny to fulfill.
As for 'all nations', such statements must be kept in context. Caesar taxed 'all the world' but it did not include China or Japan. The gospel was preached unto 'all nations' in the first century during Paul's ministry but it had not been preached any further south than Upper Egypt or any further east than Persia at the most, I would imagine.
Also, a major problem people have is reading modern situations back into ancient prophecies to postulate future fulfillments. Prophecies concerning 'nations' do not necessarily correspond to 'countries' as we understand them today in the modern sense, since 'republics' as we know them pretty much did not exist in the days the prophecies were given. 'Nations' in the Bible have to do with ethnic groups and descendency, not political lines on a modern map.
Re: Will American Christians be persecuted in your
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Originally Posted by Timmy
Will you rejoice if you are persecuted for your faith?
Yes. Doesn't mean I'll enjoy it, but I will give praise to God and thank Him for counting me worthy to be be conformed to the image of Christ in my weak and pathetic way, as I am sure I will be weak and pathetic on that day, if it ever comes.
The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. I pray I may be able to stand if I am tested in that way,
Re: Will American Christians be persecuted in your
Originally Posted by renee819
Quote:
Amen! The Beast (One World Government) will rule the world from America. On his back, will come in Mystery Babylon (One World Religion) Michael, did I send you one of my books? What did you think of it? I'd like to have some feedback.
Berkeley wrote
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and NONE of this spew backed with scripture
.
If you are looking for a scripture that says, “America did this or that” you will not find it.
Prophecy is a puzzle, and all of the pieces have to fit, or you will know that something is wrong, if the piece don't fit, it is placed in the wrong place.
Do I have all the pieces? No, no one does, but I have enough to know that God has been leading me in the right direction. This will be sketchy, because there isn't enough space and time, to put it all together here.
I don't know if I can do this without going into who all the 'beasts' of Dan. represent, but that would take a book. So I will try to just keep it to The Beast.
Who has led the world in just about everything for the last 100 yrs?
In inventions, economic growth, medicine, war materials, etc,
When there is hunger anywhere in the world, who has been the first to respond?
When there is war, who has went in, fighting, but settled it?
Who is rising up a One World Government---a New World Order?
Who is behind the One World Religion?
The UN, was promoted by the US, “power was given to it” to bring peace in the World.
The UN, is behind the One World Religion---because they say, “We can't have peace until we have a One World Religion.” The Un isn't the Beast but was raised up to bring in the Beast.
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Daniel 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
It is the
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“little horn
” that is the Beast. And what does this Beast do?
At first he will try to make peace with many--- destroying them. Compromising their government for the sake of peace. Compromising their Religion, for their life.
Many people believe that this all takes place in the Mid-East. Sorry, it is world-wide. Here is the Beast as he tries to make peace.
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Daniel 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power:
:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand
.
“when the transgressors are come to the full,”---this could not happen as long as people had some kind of decency. But we see decency be eroded away, little by little, by TV, Movies, Internet, books. And we really can't blame the young people. It is adults letting their evil desires loose that promotes these things. However, those other adults that know better than to look, listen, read these things are not moved away from their decency. It is then the young people that will suffer, because, they have not been taught, and they feel as if they have been liberated to do the things that their unregenerated heart wants to do. Therefore when the older ones are gone, whether they were Christian or not, but they had some sense of decency, then, “ the transgressors are come to the full.”
“a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up”
Not sure about the “ fierce countenance,” but I believe the “dark sentences” indicates, witchcraft.
“And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power:” Where does he get his power?
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Revelation 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority
.
“And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart,
Re: Will American Christians be persecuted in your
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias
Yes. Doesn't mean I'll enjoy it, but I will give praise to God and thank Him for counting me worthy to be be conformed to the image of Christ in my weak and pathetic way, as I am sure I will be weak and pathetic on that day, if it ever comes.
The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. I pray I may be able to stand if I am tested in that way,
Thanks, E.
Nowadays, I don't see much rejoicing in persecution -- at least not the perceived persecution that some believers claim happens already. You know, people on the net disagreeing with them or laughing at them, things like that. Complaining, yes -- all the time! Rejoicing, not so much.
To be fair, I know there is some real persecution, too. Church burnings, discrimination on the job, that sort of thing. Sad.
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Re: Will American Christians be persecuted in your
Quote:
Originally Posted by seekerman
Doomsdayers have been predicting the end for many thousands of years now. The fact is, there's been 'ends' for a number of societies throughout history, with famine, disease and wars. America, except for the destruction of the Native American society, has never really seen trials and tribulations such as much of the world has and that's a problem.
Americans are America-centric, i.e., if it doesn't happen here then it's not happening or isn't that important. Imagine being in Nagasaki or Hiroshima, total and utter destruction. If that had been New York City or Dallas, the doomsdayers would be beside themselves in pointing out the wrath of God that was being poured out. There were over 250,000 people killed in the tsunami a few years ago. Entire villages were washed away, as if they had never existed. Here, that would be God mass killing people for the sins of those living wherever it occurred. Deaths by the thousands occur frequently in Africa through starvation and war. If that occurred here, again the endtimers would be pointing out that God was punishing us, the end is here.
Ok i understand that noteveryone will agree with me on this but I'm ok with that. how do we know that those thngs are not manifestations of God's wrath?
Quote:
Originally Posted by seekerman
Of course America is going to go through tribulation, the world goes through tribulation. When it comes, people are going to suffer and die. Families will be scattered as has occurred so many many times throughout history. That's the cycle of creation it seems.
But, Christians aren't going to be singled out and persecuted. That's an irrational fear that has it's roots in the fearmongering of the Christian media. Fear sells well.
Revelations 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 and they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Daniel 11:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Yeah i guess your right Daniel and John didnt know what they were talking about.
Complaining, yes -- all the time! Rejoicing, not so much.
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