Now lets look at the authority of a Christian man.
In the first case, any authority I may have as a Christian in a marriage comes from God. And only from God.
If I am not following Christ, I have no authority. If I am not willing to do as Christ instructs (giving all up to and including my own precious life) then I have no autority.
If I have chosen to marry outside the faith, or if my wife makes the choice to step outside the faith, then I can have no expectation of authority in a biblical sense.
I MUST follow Christ. doing so will limit the demands I make. I will not make demands of my wife, or my children that stand outside the context of my faith. If I make some stand on biblical principle, then I can be assured that my Godly wife will also be moved on by the same spirit that guides me to follow my lead.
if however, my demands stand outside of the principles grounded in Holy Writ, then I can also be assured that any appeal to authority will fall on hollow ground (Not Hallowed).
I must also recognize that my wife is my help mate. She is not my property or my ward as stated in the muslim tradition. Therefore, wisdom must recognize that as such her council and desires... so long as we are both following Christ... is vital to our relationship/partnership.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
If men started withholding sex or beating their wives in an effort to get them in line....1) there would be a lot more affairs; 2) there were be an even higher number of divorces; 3) there would probably even be a spike in homicides from domestic disputes.
Now lets look at the authority of a Christian man.
In the first case, any authority I may have as a Christian in a marriage comes from God. And only from God.
If I am not following Christ, I have no authority. If I am not willing to do as Christ instructs (giving all up to and including my own precious life) then I have no autority.
If I have chosen to marry outside the faith, or if my wife makes the choice to step outside the faith, then I can have no expectation of authority in a biblical sense.
I MUST follow Christ. doing so will limit the demands I make. I will not make demands of my wife, or my children that stand outside the context of my faith. If I make some stand on biblical principle, then I can be assured that my Godly wife will also be moved on by the same spirit that guides me to follow my lead.
if however, my demands stand outside of the principles grounded in Holy Writ, then I can also be assured that any appeal to authority will fall on hollow ground (Not Hallowed).
I must also recognize that my wife is my help mate. She is not my property or my ward as stated in the muslim tradition. Therefore, wisdom must recognize that as such her council and desires... so long as we are both following Christ... is vital to our relationship/partnership.
So essentially... the Christian husband has authority in the eyes of Heaven only(?). Maybe I'm not understanding you. Because frankly, in Western society if a wife becomes a little devil... unless she cheats on him, the Christian man is truly hamstrung. He might be able to withhold sex from her... but then he gives her a right to grievance, he isn't taken seriously. And some women would simply wait him out... because women have the advantage with sex in most cases that I'm aware of... it's the man who will break down for the sake of relations.
But all of that really isn't the heart of my point/question. What is the CHURCH doing to help men find male identity and authority as it relates to the church and the Christian home? What has the church done for men lately?
Perhaps in the West... even the church is against the wall. Much like with teaching on disciplining children. The church might advocate spanking... but the wrong person hear about a parent spanking their child and it's suddenly a case for CPS. The church talks about manhood... but beyond "outings" there's really very little that calls to the primal soul of the Christian male. The primal soul that longs to roar and be heard. To hunt and to take prey. The desire to be victorious. The desire to truly "govern" the home. That primal call to lead and to be followed. The primal need to be... respected.
Many men suffer from laziness. No doubt. However, I think that when it comes to men who have (or had) been attending church for longer periods of time... the issue is a broken spirit and confusion concerning their roll in both the church and the home. A lot of men find themselves sitting in their lazy boys because they aren't able to do much else without facing "a woman's fury". A wife can quickly inform her husband that he isn't going on the men's retreat... Summer cleaning is on the same weekend. lol And in church... they are expected to attend, sit, listen, do the obligatory shout and clap... then go home and keep momma happy. As a man... you have to essentially be quiet and do what your told from the Mrs... and the pulpit. While you're essentially required to make everyone happy and do what they require of you... Who is making you happy? Men are increasingly retreating into worlds of fantasy because in fantasy land they are powerful, desired, and respected. In real life... we're essentially... sider killers and heavy lifters for the Mrs. In many homes the Mrs. even demands to manage the bills. God forbid in these homes if the husband were to day, "Honey, you've been doing a great job. But... I think God desires me to manage the bills and regulate our spending." Boy oh boy... that man is going to get it! LOL
In a way... what does it mean to be a man? What's cool about being a guy? Eh... I don't buy tampons. That's about it. lol (jk)
What can the church give us who experience or have experienced this???
I hope I'm making some sense. I'm trying to put words to a very deep feeling/emotion. Something we men often struggle with. Maybe I'm doing a terrible job.
I can share my thoughts on home church and men. In my experience home churches give men more opportunity to share their thoughts and express their convictions instead of sitting in a pew being told by one man what those thoughts and convictions should be.
However, in all honesty... even house churches struggle with getting men "in there" and leading the home.
So...men don't go to church because they can't share their feelings? Yet the same system also means women can't share either....
So men don't go because they want to share their feelings and women do go because they don't want to share their feelings?
What planet are YOU from?
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
I remember sermons on manhood, fatherhood, and being a husband.
But I could never quite get it into practice. And... I rarely ever really saw it in practice. Even the pastor would cater to the desires of his wife with regards to church functions etc.
A man does as his wife desires.
A man tries to manage the kids... unless the wife thinks he's being "too strict".
A man gives a significant portion of his money to the church.
A man has to live by and even "try" to enforce the standards set by his pastor.
What does attending church do for the man on the practical level?
I think that's why many men would rather watch Rambo than attend church. It requires a lot... but there isn't anything substantial that a man gets out of it that he can hang his hat on.
There are some things I've read about regarding Islamic cultures. Many of those things I find undesirable. However, in those countries... if a man roars... the family listens. They KNOW it is their duty. And there are consequences if they don't.
Over here... eh... a wife and kids can roll their eyes at dad. And what can he do? And even the church is powerless to get the family to listen to dad in many cases.
We're the stuff of the buffoonery we see on sitcoms. The bumbling father who "tries" to be a man... only to create a massive problem... a problem that is resolved by the wife and children... with the man apologizing in the end at his wife's feet. Sometimes it makes for good comedy. However, when it begins to become real... it's far more sinister.
So...men don't go to church because they can't share their feelings? Yet the same system also means women can't share either....
So men don't go because they want to share their feelings and women do go because they don't want to share their feelings?
What planet are YOU from?
Nope. Not quite what I mean. I told you I'm doing a terrible job at explaining what I'm trying to say. lol
In a house church... an elder reads a passage and speaks about it. Every man present can comment on the passage and even comment on the elder's words. I've seen older men turn a younger elder around on a topic with the younger elder thanking the older man for his wisdom, insight, and knowledge. It can be a powerful experience. That older man would typically have to keep his thoughts to himself and sit in that pew... clapping and getting behind the pastor... even if the pastor were wrong on a topic or needed it developed more fully. Men can contribute more to the discussion in a house church. And some house churches separate the men from the women for these sessions. Among the men it can be powerful, intellectually challenging, brutally honest, and even tender and broken. But with the ladies there... it only goes so deep and stops most of the time.
Eh... I don't buy tampons. That's about it. lol (jk)
You mean your wife doesn't call you on your way home...."Honnnnnnnney, would you stop by the store and get me some tampons, please?" And you don't want to buy just tampons. Who wants to stand in line with just tampons. So you have to buy a bunch of other junk you don't really need to try and hide the tampons in the middle of the pack of stuff.
You mean your wife doesn't call you on your way home...."Honnnnnnnney, would you stop by the store and get me some tampons, please?" And you don't want to buy just tampons. Who wants to stand in line with just tampons. So you have to buy a bunch of other junk you don't really need to try and hide the tampons in the middle of the pack of stuff.
Been there and done that! See... we don't even have that claim to ourselves.
Women have essentially invaded nearly every aspect of manhood. And it's not their fault... it's society. Our society turns the "Boys Club" into the "Boys & Girls Club". "Guss' Gym" has become the "Community Fitness Center". But down the street... we have "Ladies Premier Fitness"... and they've turned my application for membership down six times!!! LOL!
Here's something interesting... listen to the announcement of a women's retreat and the atmosphere gets all flighty and light. Ladies laughing and talking about the fun they are going to have. Mention a men's retreat... there is almost a tangible angst and groaning among the women. A heaviness to the atmosphere. And rest assured... the pastor cleared it with his wife to make sure he wasn't needed during that weekend. lol
Sometimes I think women dread a pastor standing up and truly informing the men as to what it truly means to be heads of their homes. And sadly... the authority only goes as far as... the Mrs. will allow it. No matter how you look at it... that's not headship. Western society has emasculated manhood and written laws that have shaped our society to the point wherein, to a man... the church is just another civic duty. A symbolic action. And after a while... it becomes far too taxing if you aren't getting any personal reward out of it. I know it sounds selfish... but let's face it. The church/leadership is there to serve the body. Not the body the leadership. What is the church/leadership given men that gives them true meaning and identity in the body and in their family???
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