Survey About Doctrinal Beliefs - Page 34

crakjak · #**331** 02-19-2011, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnTraditional

Those who deny Hell are humanists who deny the justice of God. If God is love, God must hate sin, and all are guilty of sin. The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ, All who come in true repentance and faith in Christ shall be saved. Those who won't shall forever be condemned to the eternal fire of Hell, which is in fact the full manifestation of the wrath of God against all unrighteousness.

Universalism denies the justice of God, the holiness of God, the depravity of sin. It makes grace just a get out of damnation free card. How a person can read the Bible and not believe in Hell is unfathomable.

I could post some of Jonathan Edwards descriptions of hell, and see if that would satisfy you. See if you really think God's justice requires God to be a tormentor of His creation??

aegsm76 · #**332** 02-20-2011, 12:14 AM

CJ - I don't know if you are just playing "devil's advocate" here?
(Boy that's funny in light of the discussion)
But, how would you reconcile no hell with the book of Revelation?
Also, to me no hell means no devil/demons, which leads me to no heaven and no God/angels.

crakjak · #**333** 02-20-2011, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aegsm76

CJ - I don't know if you are just playing "devil's advocate" here?
(Boy that's funny in light of the discussion)
But, how would you reconcile no hell with the book of Revelation?
Also, to me no hell means no devil/demons, which leads me to no heaven and no God/angels.

Jesus said that He came to seek and to save the lost.

Rev. 22, declares that the gates to the New Jerusalem are never closed, and there is a continual call to "Come"!

The book of Revelation is full of symbolism. Fire is for burning chaff and dross, not the kernel of the wheat, the silver or the gold. God will remove all sin and evil from His creation, thru the "fire" of His presence.

Why would the Father have to torment His creation, when He has the power the time and the motive to eventually bring each and everyone in to proper relationship with Himself??

Have you done a study of the word, hell, throughout scripture, can't just assume that it is the traditional definition of hell, because scripture uses the term in several different meanings.

UnTraditional · #**334** 02-20-2011, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crakjak

I could post some of Jonathan Edwards descriptions of hell, and see if that would satisfy you. See if you really think God's justice requires God to be a tormentor of His creation??

JE's description of Hell does not satisfy, because it is a weak description at best. In fact, our description of Hell is pale infinite compared with the real deal. We have not sinned against some mayor or even the President, but we have sinned against the holy and sovereign Lord over all creation. In Revelation, when the angels worshiped the Lord, they cried Holy, Holy, Holy, because He is holy above all.

UR is a demonic doctrine which robs God of His sovereignty, of His justice, and bring pure humanism to deity. It is indeed a dangerous and damnable doctrine of devils, plain and simple. It denies the true reason of Christ's Cross, in that He drank the cup of Hell, the fullness of the wrath of God against sin for all who would come. UR denies the need to come. It is a doctrine of demons and I do call you to repent before God of this belief.

Truthseeker · #**335** 02-20-2011, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aegsm76

CJ - I don't know if you are just playing "devil's advocate" here?
(Boy that's funny in light of the discussion)
But, how would you reconcile no hell with the book of Revelation?
Also, to me no hell means no devil/demons, which leads me to no heaven and no God/angels.

He believes in hell just not traditional view.

Truthseeker · #**336** 02-20-2011, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfrog

How just is a God that will send the vast majority of men to hell for sin, something which apart from Christ they have no choice in

That's a good question. Does man really have choice to be a sinner?

Truthseeker · #**337** 02-20-2011, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfrog

Words have meaning and calling someone just means something. So yes, I can judge whether to call someone just. And sins is a violation of God's commandments and all have sinned... but none of them had a choice not to. How can you judge people without a choice? I can't.

As for the 2nd paragraph... some men never get an opportunity to come to Jesus.

Sinners have no choice but to sin. Did Pharoah have any choice but to have a hardened heart? Think not.

Truthseeker · #**338** 02-20-2011, 07:49 AM

Could God got Hitler to his knees crying like a broken hose over his sins he so choose to?

crakjak · #**339** 02-20-2011, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnTraditional

JE's description of Hell does not satisfy, because it is a weak description at best. In fact, our description of Hell is pale infinite compared with the real deal. We have not sinned against some mayor or even the President, but we have sinned against the holy and sovereign Lord over all creation. In Revelation, when the angels worshiped the Lord, they cried Holy, Holy, Holy, because He is holy above all.

UR is a demonic doctrine which robs God of His sovereignty, of His justice, and bring pure humanism to deity. It is indeed a dangerous and damnable doctrine of devils, plain and simple. It denies the true reason of Christ's Cross, in that He drank the cup of Hell, the fullness of the wrath of God against sin for all who would come. UR denies the need to come. It is a doctrine of demons and I do call you to repent before God of this belief.

If He drank so deeply, why is it that, in your view, His suffering accomplished only and the possibly of an elect few to escape the horrors that He suffered.

Quite frankly, did the suffering of deity not accomplish the redemption of HIS creation. Adam's sin was powerful enough to destroy God's plan, but the suffering of God's son was weak and could not reverse sin's effect???????

While you declare a powerful god, you actually present a weak and bumbling deity??? He could not actually save the creation, so he created a torture pit to torment his children????? This is not the God of scripture.

UnTraditional · #**340** 02-20-2011, 08:15 AM

If such a doctrine is allowed to be pushed on this forum, then please let the admins of this forum delete my account. Any man who denies the truth of the justice of God is a liar and the truth is not in him.