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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


 
 
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Old 05-04-2007, 06:38 AM
Iron_Bladder
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3 Divine Attributes applied to F + S

Why can't Oneness Pentecostals affirm that the Son possesses every divine attribute (as the Son)? It doesn't seem logical for them to claim that Yahweh is creator, omnipresent and eternal, but then after suggesting that the Son is Yahweh, like many other subordinationists, for them to then claim that the Son isn't eternal (as the Son), he isn't creator (as the Son), and he isn't Omnipresent as the Son.

I’ve heard Unitarians, Oneness, Branhamites, Mormons and Christadelphians and Jehovah’s Witnesses all calling Jesus the Son by the name; ‘God,’ however, these subordinationists after they've done this, then quality the word 'God' in slightly different ways to imply something less than deity when the word ‘God’ is applied to Jesus Christ the Son. So the Mormons make him out to be a man who’s now been elevated to Godhood. Jehovah’s Witnesses will claim that Jesus is the mighty God but that he isn’t the Almighty God. Oneness Pentecostals will either claim that the Spirit which indwelt the Son is Yahweh God, but not the Son (flesh) himself, or else the Son is a created manifestation of Yahweh and therefore it’s Yahweh and not the manifestation of Yahweh who’s; eternal, creator or omnipresent etc.

Please look at each of the following three verses; for they each apply these three individual divine attributes of BOTH the Father and also to the Son.


The Father creates THROUGH (dia) the Son at Hebrews 1:2; ‘“God has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom he has appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds.” (Hebrews 1:2, NKJV).


The Father and the Son are both Omnipresent at John 14:23; ‘We will come to him and make our abode with him.’


The Father together with the Son both exist in eternity and from before the beginning of time at the creation, and yet both also possess another divine attribute of divine glory from before the creation of the universe John 17:5; ‘The glory which I had with you before the world was.’ The standard Oneness explanation that Jesus was then a ‘thought’ or a ‘plan’ in Yahweh’s mind is completely impossible, for thoughts or plans don’t possess the divine attribute of Yahweh's glory or be loved by the Father, because thoughts being an ‘it’ not a ‘He’ therefore can’t be Yahweh God itself (John 17:24). One ‘He’ can relate to another ‘He’ in eternity, but an eternal ‘it’ is an Oxymoron – something which is impossible, because only Yahweh is eternal, so any ‘it’ must consequently by a part of the creation.



Please do reply to these most important questions. For if the Son doesn’t possess any divine attributes in and of himself as the Son, then he can’t be Yahweh God in and of himself, but he’d instead be either a mere manifestation of Yahweh or a man in whom Yahweh’s spirit indwells.

Last edited by Iron_Bladder; 05-04-2007 at 07:00 AM. Reason: to place question in bold
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