First let me say thank you for staying with this, you are gracious to do so. Next I want to say I do beleive in pastors on the proper context and in their place. What I don't beleive is the way we have made the ministry (all the ministry) into a higher class of people. This is a trend I beleive we have kept from RC influance, when the bible was chained to the pulpit and the common people were not incouraged or alowed to read and study as they were told the church was given the authority to translate and then pass down to the layity.
As you have shown that God did give people pastors, what I am still not seeing is how the word instructs us that pastors or any ministry were placed in the position they now hold. We quote
Ephesians 4:11-12, and
Hebrews 13:17 to try and back up the idea of the ministry being over the church. But I have found with careful study that these passages when taken in context and proper meaning of the word "obey" do not give the authority taken by those in ministerial authority today.
Again I see the example in OT as to how these gifts are to be used in the kingdom of God today. In the simple way that they were used in OT. I can find most if not all of what we call the five fold ministry in OT examples. What I can't find is examples of the way man has set himself above others in the body of Christ just by the exclamation that he has been called of God to said postion.
Any comments on this.
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