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Originally Posted by jasites
Good points!
Here's where I'm at:
I think that everyone can agree on the fact the first churches (epistles) without doubt laid down a number of dress codes. Now with that knowledge, do we:
1 - Try to decipher these dress codes and apply them today?
2 - Try to understand the thought process used in creating these dress codes and apply this process to a 21st Century application?
I think the UPCI has done a little bit of both which has yielded some uncanny results (no beards, open-toed shoes, etc.)
But what I don't know that I can live with is the idea that dress standards are to only be a personal conviction. That is just not supported in the Bible and I would venture to say that even the most open-minded member on here would have some issues if their respective platform staff showed up Sun. morning with purple hair, tattoo's, tongue piercing etc. And as result feel that something should be done or said. ...be honest!
Bottom line is:
I think everyone, (Apostolic's, Baptist's, Catholic's etc.) has a line that they feel should be drawn. I don't see eye-to-eye with every issue, but instead of just tearing down we have to acknowledge that all of us have some sort of personal standard and begin to consider how we can ever reconcile the differences? I know, I know, standards should not be crammed down throats, and taken out of context! I AGREE MORE THAN YOU KNOW! But having no standards is just unrealistic - every religion, workplace, and business does.
Propose a change! Don't just complain about the obvious. But that's a bigger task than what any of us imagine. In this light, I can't throw that many stones at the UPCI
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Sorry... didn't realize you responded to me, the thread got busy and so did I.
That is just it, the epistles really didn't hand down any dress codes other than modesty. Most folks wore open toed shoes (sandals) and in Jewish culture only two kinds of men were clean shaven... sodomites and Romans.
Modesty is the standard when it comes to clothing. And with correctly applied biblical principles+Holy Ghost convictions, no-one will have purple hair, piercings or lay on the beach in a speedo or bikini.
I really have no problem with standards applied personally as an outward manifestation of and inward commitment to Jesus. Since we seem to be new to each other and for the benefit of those who do not know me or know me well I fall on the conservative side of the fence and am what this forum's member would call a three stepper. In fact I am probably a bit more on the conservative side than many mainstream UPCI churches.
I agree that having no standards is unrealistic. Everyone has a line, it may be drawn at different places but the line is there.
My only problems with them fall into three areas.
- When they are inconsistently taught using inapplicable scriptures or misinterpreted scripture. i.e.
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(3) Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
(4) But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
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This scripture is incorrectly used as a prohibition against wearing any jewelry. Yet where is the standard which could also be extracted from this on plaiting of hair and apparel? The last UPCI General COnference I went to had all kinds of hairdos and outlandish dresses, but no jewelry of course!
Instead the principle of the verses is simple, don't let the outward be your adorning. So correctly applied biblical principle would dictate that if I wear jewelry (i don't BTW) it won't be the extravagant sort that draw attention to itself and the same would apply to my hair and clothes.
- When they are used as a guideline to judge and discard people, whether they be sinner or saint. Despite the old Apostolic title "Fruit Inspector" which I always heard used in conjunction with judging someone's outward appearance, God never commissioned such an office.
When we put someone in hell because they got hair on their face or own a television, I think we stand in danger of the judgment over it, because that is precisely what the Pharisees did and we know how Jesus responded to that... he hasn't changed his mind on that.
- When preacher arbitrarily make rules up and demand obedience to their personal likes or dislikes because they are "the man of God" and threatens people with hell if they don't line up.
So there that is, pretty much my view of all that. Jesus' didn't come to make a new religion. And when we place an over emphasis on out ward things and mandate them, that is what we are doing, turning the liberty he called us to into another religion.
The UPCI started on a good course, one steppers and three steppers commited to work together to further the gospel, outward wasn't much of an issue... but somewhere along the way it turned into just another religious denomination.
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