Remitted on the Cross or not?

[Adino]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Adino, please quote me asserting forgiveness of the cross is furthered in personal acceptance or any other method, then we can continue.

Your use of the word appropriation gave me the impression you believed forgiveness of those sins remitted on the Cross takes place 'in the eyes of God' when one 'appropriates by faith' (whatever that means).

The crux of this discussion is when God sees our sins as having been forgiven, not when we do. In God's eyes, were our sins remitted forever on Calvary or only sometime after? If we must 'appropriate' the forgiveness of the Cross at faith or at baptism or whenever in order for God to see us as forgiven, then forgiveness did not take place on the Cross.

Does God see us as forgiven before we come to terms with this reality? I think, yes.

The world was freely reconciled to God by the death of Christ so that the world could be saved by the life of Christ. Having been reconciled by his death, we are saved by his life. The forgiveness of the Cross made way for repentance unto life. We 'experience' the forgiveness of the Cross in Christ's resurrected life.

Then everyone is saved, right now, even Hitler.

No. Man must pass from spiritual death into spiritual life by believing (John 3:15-16, John 3:36; John 5:24; John 6:40; John 6:47; John 11:25,26).

That is because THROUGH faith we receive the forgiveness of sins
Act 10:43 To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."

Act 13:38 Let it be known to you therefore, brothers, that through this man forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, and by him everyone who believes is freed from everything

Act 26:18 to open their eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.'

I wholly agree with all these.

Our conscience is purged, our heart is purified, we 'receive' the historic forgiveness of the Cross, we pass from death unto life when we believe. He that believes is no longer condemned, not because the sins taken to the Cross are no longer condemning to him, but because he is no longer calling God a liar by rejecting the testimony God gave of His Son.

Man comes into condemnation because of unbelief (John 3:15-16, John 3:36; John 5:24; John 6:40; John 6:47; John 11:25,26).

But, when we place our trust in the record God gave of his Son (i.e., the testimony of God) (1John 5:10-13) we pass from death unto life. To 'obey' the Gospel is to believe the report God gives of his Son (Romans 10:16). To believe (have faith in) the report is to set to seal that God is true (John 3:33). To reject the report in unbelief is to call God a liar (1John 5:10) and to invite his condemnation and wrath (John 3:18; John 3:36; John 16:8-9).

Have to teach a class tonight. Maybe I'll get a chance to address your other concerns later.

Anyway.... maybe I'll catch ya'll later.