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Old 12-08-2008, 01:05 AM
mizpeh mizpeh is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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Re: Pitfalls in Solely Relying on Acts for doctrin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea View Post
Micheal also brings a very important point that the initial tongues/"initial evidence" in Acts 2 were human tongues and were intelligible ... a point that brought the notorious Dr. Vaughn some serious flak on this forum. It's very legitimate in the light that many do not speak intelligibly.

Even if I accept it as normative ... the onus that is salvational brings a interesting conondrum to the 3 step crowd.

First, Jesus (who I believe holds the trump card in all things doctrinal) said it is a sign that woud FOLLOW A BELIEVER ...



Are all of these signs that FOLLOW A BELIEVER now salvational? Essential? If I don't cast out a demon do I get to punch my ticket?

Or are they all accessible? available? to be done IN HIS NAME?

Also if what we hear from 3 step theology and doctrine is true it leads to another dilemma in Acts 10.

I've posted this before:

Some believe we must imitate, emulate, re-enact the death, burial, resurretion of Jesus Christ by obeying the Gospel as stated by Peter in Acts 2:38 to be fully saved and born again.

They also believe that John 3:3 teaches the that being born of the water and spirit ... being born again is fully complete by a properly administered water baptism and speaking in other tongues as evidence of receiving the Holy Ghost.

Water baptism is perceived as being part of a recipe ... part of the BORN AGAIN MIX. Furthermore, water baptism is compared by them to only being buried w/ Christ.

The issue I'd like to address is whether or not this "burial" indeed partially regenerates us ... and is efficacious in quickening us by His Spirit into new birth, albeit partial.

It is my belief that Acts 10 still is the smoking gun ... against 3 step theology. If baptism is a burial of the dead man ... necessary to rid the man of the body of sin and wipe his sin stain ... then how could the Spirit of God quicken unto righteousness and life that which is still dead?

Does the indwelling of the Holy Ghost ["resurrrection"} represent the final piece of the 3 step puzzle that must be re-enacted that raises us into new life? ... does His Spirit do this while not setting us free of the law of sin and death or putting to death the deeds/sins of the body? (Romans 8:13)

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Please read
Acts 8: 1-14 for this discussion.
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1. In Acts 10, we find those in the house of Cornelius showing evidence of being indwelt w/ the Holy Spirit yet had not, as some teach, been buried their body of sin ... or carnal man. Some would even say because they had not been baptized they are not yet declared righteous/justified and/or their slate not wiped clean through a properly administered baptism that would effectuate sin remission.

Furthermore, those w/ this sacramental mindset [a rite that mediates grace] are the first to say that unless one does not have the Spirit of Christ they are not His as it applies to speaking in tongues ... yet we see Cornelius being declared His, prior to water baptism.
(Romans 8:9)

We see the the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus setting him free from the law of sin and of death prior to re-enacting a burial of the body of sin???? (Romans 8:2)

2. Also we see that he is declared righteous before God and he is alive because of Christ's imputed righteousness ... by the Spirit indwelling. ....

Romans 8:10 - If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

3. Finally, if re-enactment theology is God-ordained ... repentance is death, baptism is burial and receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit is the resurrection ...

Then how can Cornelius through his being filled w/ the Holy Ghost have circumvented this process?
It is the initial indwelling of the Spirit of God that puts to DEATH THE DEEDS OF THE BODY SO THAT WE MAY BE QUICKENED TO LIFE, or Destroys the body of sin (Romans 6:6) ...

Romans 13 .... for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
These gaping holes in their theology show that one, namely Cornelius and those in his house, can be declared righteous, quickened unto life, put to death the deeds of the body, be declared His, set free from the law of sin and death .... not condemened in Christ Jesus ... PRIOR TO BEING FULLY SAVED ... REGENERATED ...OR COMPLETING THE NEW BIRTH PROCESS.

Cornelius was declared a son of God ... born of God ... prior to baptism. With all the priveleges ... full access to our Father and the inheritance of new life.

Romans 8
14For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
15For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!"
16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,
17and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

All this before being BURIED INTO CHRIST and having the blood applied in his life???

Please reconcile Romans 8 and other scripture pointing to being born again/born of God BY HIS SPIRIT before completing the proported Born Again recipe.

To answer Matt's question w/ another question ... How can Cornelius been quickened to life while still dead in sin?
Sorry, Dan, I don't want to discuss baptism with you until you take the time to go back to the thread you started where you implied I was a heretic and deal with my response to your accusations. Do you remember that thread? It was all about the blood of Christ and water baptism.

And I have addressed the smoking gun of those who receive the Spirit prior to water baptism before. At least my thoughts on the subject. I don't think you've ever responded to them. You may have missed it when you were banned.

God bless you and Cass and your new life together in Christ. Are you spending Christmas in NY?
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To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
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