Could the Antichrist be the Islamic Mahdi?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Parson

Hi Bro Blume!

The man of sin, son of perdition, and the Anti-Christ are only terms for the same individual.

I know the idea. I preached it for years. lol. I am just saying THE ANTICHRIST is a misnomer. There is no THE antichrist in the bible except for THE SPIRIT of that nature.

You will have to admit that the MAN OF SIN would indeed be an anti-christ.

YES! "AN" Antichirst. Definitely.

The problem with preterism is that they cannot find a fulfillment of this individual....this anti-christ, man of son, son of perdition.

Preterism? That is not the issue. It's not even the problem related to the issue. The issue is the title of the beast or the man of sin. Nothing indicates the beast is the man of sin, and nothing indicates either are THE antichrist. (And Bro., you have not heard all the answers provided, anyway). But we DO know there is no "THE" antichrist. It's nothing to do with preterism. It's just a matter of biblical terms and their intended meanings in lieu of what John actually said.

I disagree with those that try to place an face on this man. But that is another story.

The ISBE staes this: The reason why each age has had its fresh interpretation identifying the man of sin with the blasphemous powers of evil then most active is the fact that the prophecy has never yet found its complete accomplishment. The man of sin has never been fully revealed, and Christ has never finally destroyed him.

One may ignore the term anti-christ in favor of man of sin...but you cannot ignore that this individual is yet in our future.

That opens up a whole different ball of wax. You know how I honestly feel about that. What has that issue got to do with TERMS used, as Bro Hall and I discussed? Would you change the nature of this topic? As I informed Bro Hall, the issue of WHEN is not necessary to mention whatsoever!

2 Thes. 2:9 (NIV)
The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders,


2 Thes. 2:9-10 (NRSV)
The coming of the lawless one is apparent in the working of Satan, who uses all power, signs, lying wonders, [10] and every kind of wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.


2 Thes. 2:9-10 (NASB)
that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, [10] and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.

None of these things occurred in 70
AD.

We could take weeks to discuss this again, bro. As I said, AD70 is not the issue, and not required in determining whether or not the beast is "the antichrist". But for some reason you insist on speaking of futurism vs. preterism here. I am not against that, but why here in this thread?

Also, Bro Blume, please compare this scripture with your 1 John passage.

2 Thes. 2:7 (NIV)
For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way.


or for the purists--------2 Thes. 2:7 (KJV)
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Paul stated that AN INDIVIDUAL would come in the spirit of iniquity. John stated the same thing....in a different verbage. Spirit of Anti-Christ---spirit of lawlessness---it is the same thing.

John said the SPIRIT of antichrist was in the world. He said that it was the "last time" in his day, due to the fact that manyh antichrists, not one, were present.

1Jo 2:18 KJV Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Like Nathaniel Urshan said, "The apostles THOUGHT they were in the last days. But WE KNOW we are in the last days." Who was right? Nathaniel or John?

(CEV) Children, this is the last hour. You heard that the enemy of Christ would appear at this time, and many of Christ's enemies have already appeared. So we know that the last hour is here.

And please note

THE enemy of Christ---and not just AN enemy of Christ.

THE CEV is a far cry from an scholarly translation. Case in point: "hoti" in the phrase "hoti antichristos" is not THE, as in THE ENEMY as the CEV would like to imply, but rather a demonstrative term using the sense BECAUSE OF.

G3754
ὅτι
hoti
hot'-ee
Neuter of G3748 as conjugation; demonstrative that (sometimes redundant); causatively because: - as concerning that, as though, because (that), for (that), how (that), (in) that, though, why.

We cannot favour a "version's" rendition of something only to prove our point, without ensuring the accuracy the translation is not under question. But many people certainly do choose to quote certain translations other than the KJV in less favor for the manner in which the KJV says something that may appear to endanger their view.

1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Note that antichrist is singular....not plural.

Where did they hear it? Jesus! Jesus said "MANY shall come in my name". "False Christs and false prophets shall rise". Paul told about men arising in Acts 20:30, saying "shall MEN arise". John explains the idea and says that there were MANY ANTICHRISTS in fulfillment of the idea that "antichrist shall come". But the plainest statement which is always avoided here, even in this thread, is that it is specifically a spirit that denies Jesus came in flesh.

The teaching was that ONE would come who was THE ENEMY of Christ---and this spirit was prevailing during their time....as there were many who were anti-christ.

Not so fast, bro. It is an interpretation to say ONE would come. Some have stated that John CORRECTED the notion of ONE coming, by saying rather there are many. Others have stated that the SPIRIT is the ONE antichrist coming, manifested in MANY MEN. And your interpretation is that ONE MAN would come. It does not say the ONE would be a MAN, though. That must be read into the text with a dependent background of the doctrine that there will be ONE called THE antichrist. I have the authority of John's further statement saying ONE SPIRIT is highlighted behind the entire term. Unfortunately, you have no explicit ONE MAN written anywhere in explicit conjunction with antichirst, specifically.

Whose version is correct? Seeing what the rest of scripture said about the isse is the only way to solve it.

Call him what you will.......but he is in our future...

Nobody here was ever talking about WHEN he would come. Of course it is known I am partial preterist, but neither Bro Hall nor myself engaged that issue in the entire thread. It's not the point. If you want to discuss preterism versus futurism again, that is your prerogative. But I would think that would suit another thread. But whether future or not, the POINT is that THE ANTICHRIST is not biblical in thinking of the man of sin. Nothing tells us the man of sin is THE antichrist, except some people's interpretations.

God bless!