So you are saying Jesus and thief went to heaven the same day He died? Yes, that's my inference from the evidences in the Scriptures
And that dead people separated from their bodies still have laps, tongues, fingers, mouths? That's what it seems like. I haven't died to testify about the details, though, but that's what I interpret.
And that the unjust were also there? And both groups could communicate with each other? Yes, the adobe of the dead (Hades) had a separation between the just and the unjust but could still allow for communication. That may seem crazy and hard to explain the details but that's what the text says. That's what the story from Jesus describes.
And that the unjust are punished before being judged? They are being tormented in the prison. I don't know the source of the torment, since the Bible doesn't state it.
And that in Revelation there are some saints under a literal altar crying out for vengeance? Let me explain this. What I said is that the described event is the fictitious thing, carrying a symbolic meaning, but the elements of the event are drawn from elements in real life.
Pretty much everything in this text are elements drawn from real life, the story itself is not, as it is the symbolic thing:
Revelation 6:9-11 (NKJV) 9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" 11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.
It is the same as parables: made up stories that are real to life, with elements (the entities and the things they do, and the places) that are from real life. If you incorporate elements from fantasy then it is no longer a parable: e.g. animals talking, humans with winds flying to stars, etc...
The Bible has those two, but in the case of Revelation, not everything is fantastic creatures and actions. Specifically in that text, "souls" are not drawn from fantasy, as they appear in many other parts of the Bible in genres that speak in clear terms to mean something that it is real to life.
Does that make sense?
I hope I'm not frustrating you
. Just having an interesting conversation. I actually enjoyed reading your post as you have very good points and also good questions. For example, "why does God need to resurrect the unjust to judge them then?", and also the overall point that the resurrection of the just and the unjust is the key doctrine regarding afterlife, which is the opposite of what you see today in conversations and preachings.
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