See? Exactly what I said. When they see "the dead" in their own mind they change it to the "dead body". Thats the only way they can keep this doctrine going. We all agree the body dies. The problem is they have as they see it THE REAL PERSON still alive.
Paul writes of THEM that are asleep. To me that sounds personal. It is PERSONS that sleep unless one would make a persons body ANOTHER PERSON from their soul!
When Paul teaches the saints:
1 Thess 4:13
13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
His purpose is to comfort them. Now IF Paul is simply talking about their DEAD BODIES and not the PERSONS as this doctrine asserts consider this. Are the bereaved sorrowing because they miss their loved ones DEAD BODIES that are asleep? Or are they sorrowing because they miss the PERSONS that are asleep?
Also note if his teaching here is to comfort them concerning their dead loved ones, why does he NOT EVEN MENTION.......the fact they are actually in Heaven with Jesus Christ right now? What would be sorrowful about that?
Isn't that the entire point of their doctrine? And YET Paul never mentions the thing that modern Christianity puts its hope in once!
Verse 14
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
Many readers miss Pauls first point here, that he is talking about the RESURRECTION. Our faith is that Jesus died and ROSE AGAIN. Now when he proceeds by saying EVEN SO....meaning in like manner those who are ASLEEP in Jesus will God bring with him.
So he is not talking at all about bringing live saints down from Heaven when he returns. No he is talking about the dead, sleeping saints raising up from the dead EVEN AS JESUS ROSE FROM THE DEAD. For his next thought is exactly that.
Verses 15-16
15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
He is not teaching them that living saints are going to come back down to the earth from Heaven but rather that the dead in Christ who are asleep are going to RISE.... FIRST.
After they rise, then they will meet the Lord Jesus first, before those who are alive and remain.
Verse 17.
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
The resurrected saints after meeting with the "raptured saints" in the clouds will then all return to the earth together. So when Jesus returns to THE EARTH the saints who were asleep but are now alive again will be brought with him.
So amazing and consistent with the rest of Bible teaching about death and the afterlife, Paul says then, at the time this takes place we shall ever "be with" the Lord!
This absolutely contradicts the erroneous interpretation men try to force upon Pauls writing in
2 Cor 5:8 that as soon as we die THEN we are present with the Lord. Well if they are present with the Lord as soon as they die why does Paul say here at the resurrection of the dead we shall ever "be with the Lord"? Does not that mean they were NOT with the Lord before this event? Obviously.
Now let us examine perhaps the most striking blow to the doctrine of immortal soul possible.
Verse 18.
18Wherefore comfort one another with THESE words.
Pauls point was to comfort those who had loved ones that died. So he does this in verses 14-17.
The shocking thing is that NEVER ONCE does Paul give them comfort by saying its only their bodies that are dead! THEY THEMSELVES are actually alive right now with Jesus!
So when modern Preachers try to comfort saints by telling them their loved ones are now alive in Heaven "with the Lord" they are giving them a FALSE HOPE and comforting them with words that are DIFFERENT than the words Paul used to give them comfort.
So to be in agreement with the apostles doctrine given by Jesus Christ we only have authority to say the same thing Paul said in verses 14-17 when giving comfort to the bereaved.
Threaded Mode
