Poster Aquilla was right.....

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

Doesn't matter the timeframe. What matters is due process of American citizens are being violated.



Let me get this straight: You are all for denying constitutional due process for American Citizens, but you are against the POTUS using his constitutional powers to restrict non-citizens from entering the US? You make no sense.

What "due process" is being denied? The selectee lists aren't criminal charges. And there is a process of redress should one's name be on the list by mistake or merely on account of matching the name of another.

I have, you just don't like it. You have yet to show where in the Constitution the government is allowed to violate the due process of American citizens.

Again, what "due process" is being denied? What "due process" is being denied? The selectee lists aren't criminal charges. And there is a process of redress should one's name be on the list by mistake or merely on account of matching the name of another.

Now this is just rich. On one hand, you complain about the travel ban EO the POTUS signed, but now you say, well the feds have the power to defend us. You're also against the border wall, but in the bold above acknowledge the government has power to defend the border.

I think the travel ban doesn't ban travel to or from the very nations the terrorists that attacked us were from. So, it wouldn't have even prevented 9/11. It is like having huge gaping holes in the walls of a city. In addition, the travel ban isn't just affecting suspects on a terrorist watch list, it is effecting many upstanding citizens. Frankly, it is more Draconian than expanding background checks to include the terrorist watch lists.

I think the boarder wall that Trump plans is far too expensive. If Mexico were paying for it, I might be a bit indifferent. It won't span the entire boarder. In addition, most illegals get here through unknown tunnels, a wall will not stop them. And when Trump cut funding to medical research and Medicare to help pay for it, I moved to being solidly against it. I don't agree with paying to build a wall, by limiting medical advancements or denying seniors medication.

Yes, the POTUS does have constitutional power to restrict entry to the US. That is not a matter of debate. obama restricted entry, W restricted entry, and so on.

I'm not debating his authority to do so. I'm only saying that he doesn't have the stones to enforce a travel ban against the very nation's that (if memory serves me correctly) 15 of the 19 9/11 attackers came from.

However, neither the POTUS nor the feds have the constitutional power to violate due process and restrict due process rights.

Again, what due process is denied?

You want to pretend this is just about boarding airplanes of private companies and how it's not a constitutional right to fly. I'm not arguing whether airlines can decide who boards or not. That's not the issue and you know it.

I'm simply saying you don't have a constitutional right to fly. And if you are on a suspected threat list, they have the right to keep you off any plane they desire.

Furthermore, you're wanting to use this unconstitutional list to restrict the 2A constitutional rights of American citizens.

You do know that there are plenty of gun owners who don't want assault weapons in the hands of terrorists don't you? There are gun owners who have no issue with expanding a background check to include the terrorist watch lists. After all, what good is a background check if it looking to address a growing threat to American citizens???

For the third time -- Where in the Constitution is power given to the feds to violate due process rights of US Citizens and restricting their 2A rights?

You've failed to present a due process being denied.

NICS gathers info from the NICS database, the Interstate Identification Index and the NCIC. There are several reasons a buyer may be restricted from purchasing a weapon:

• Convicted of a crime punishable by more than one year or a misdemeanor punishable by more than two years
• Fugitive from Justice
• Misdemeanor Crime of Domestic Violence Conviction
• Unlawful User/Addicted to a Controlled Substance
• State Prohibitor
• Protection/Restraining Order for Domestic Violence
• Under Indictment/Information
• Adjudicated Mental Health
• Illegal/Unlawful Alien
• Federally Denied Persons File
• Dishonorable Discharge
• Renounced U.S. Citizenship

As US citizens, we are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. We have due process rights, as citizens. You want to go beyond this list and restrict the 2A constitutional right of citizens who haven't committed a crime!

If you are on a watch list, you're suspect. If it is a clerical error, there is a process that clears your name. One need not even go to court to get off the list. At the very worst, it only delays the purchase of an "assault rifle" for a couple weeks. It doesn't delay the purchase of a handgun or hunting rifle. At best, it prevents a mass casualty terrorist attack.

Assuming the worst case scenario, you wouldn't be willing to delay the purchase of an assault weapon a couple weeks for the sake of the safety of your countrymen?

I've got an idea, why don't gun owners who think like you offer special discounts for those who can prove they are on the watch list. LOL

Didn't you claim to be libertarian at one point?

I graduated.

So now I'm a terrorist? God bless you, Aquila.

Ummm... you're basically advocating that we allow suspected terrorists to freely purchase assault weapons. Isn't that aiding the enemy?

That's not what the House bill was about. The No Fly No Buy bill was an amendment added to a spending bill. It did NOT single out assault rifles only. It was a ban on firearms. Period.

I'm for singling out assault weapons. I feel that is a decent political compromise. However, I'd entertain the notion of covering all gun purchases.

After all is said and done....you'd ban travel to and from a group of nations with active and hostile terrorist groups....but, should anyone traveling from one of these nations successfully get here, you fully support the suspected terrorists among them the right to purchase assault weapons???