Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
Yes and never once responded to what I proposed initially.
No, that is not conclusive by any stretch of the imagination. Find me ONE SCHOLAR who agrees with you. ONE. Quote him./ Look at these:
ALBERT BARNES By his angel - That is, an angel was employed to cause these scenic representations to pass before the mind of the apostle. The communication was not made directly to him, but was through the medium of a heavenly messenger employed for this purpose. Thus, in Rev_22:6, it is said, “And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to show unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.” Compare Rev_1:8-9 of that chapter. There is frequent allusion in the Scriptures to the fact that angels have been employed as agents in making known the divine will, or in the revelations which have been made to people. Thus, in Act_7:53, it is said, “Who have received the law by the disposition of angels.” “For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast,” etc., Heb_2:2; “and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator,” Gal_3:19. Compare the notes on Act_7:38, Act_7:53. There is almost no further reference to the agency of the angel employed for this service in the book, and there is no distinct specification of what he did, or of his great agency in the case.
ADAM CLARKE: It is here said that this revelation, or discovery of hidden things, was given by God to Jesus Christ; that Christ gave it to his angel; that this angel showed it to John; and that John sent it to the Churches. Thus we find it came from God to Christ, from Christ to the angel, from the angel to John, and from John to the Church. JOHN GILL and he sent, and signified it by his angel unto servant John; he who is the Lord of angels, and to whom they are ministering spirits, sometimes sent one angel and sometimes another; and by various emblems, signs, and visions, represented and set before John, a faithful servant, and a beloved disciple of his, the whole of this revelation. Ad inifinitum...
It was not a message to 7 churches. It was seven message to seven churches and not the overall revelation the first verse speaks about. You are extremely biaqsed in this in obvious efforts to maintain in your own mind that Jesus is not God.
It was asked why we believe Jesus is God. I explained that JESUS IS ALPHA AND OMEGA and is ALMIGHTY. Case closed. It mjust be a clincher since yhou are avoiding that like a hot potato.
Anything about the Lamb going to God, etc., is all taken into consideration AFTER one realizes that JESUS IS BOTH THE ALPHA AND OMEGA AND ALMIGHTY. Why do you refuse to touch this?
I know why.
Oh now this is royal! "The book does not say how many Alpha an Omegas there are????????????????????"
LOL
Ok, is that the same answer you wil give for the question of hi,many ALMIGHTIES are there? |
Never looked at the 'queen' James version. Your book says that's an abomination. Did you read that part?
Was using the literal translation. Literal translation says messenger.
I
was making fun of you when I said that the book doesn't say how many alphas and omegas there are. Know why? Let me summarize your logic.
You brought up
Rev 22 I did not. John is writing about a messenger that he is standing with. You said that the messenger was not Jesus 3 posts back because John starts to worship him and the messenger says (verse 8-9) "do not bow to me bow to God". Let's review.
22:8 And I, John, am he who is seeing these things and hearing, and when I heard and beheld, I fell down to bow before the feet of the messenger who is shewing me these things
Rev 22:9 and he saith to me, `See -- not; for fellow-servant of thee am I, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of those keeping the words of this scroll; before God bow.'
Then the
same messenger in verse 13 says:
13 I am the Alpha and the Omega -- the Beginning and End -- the First and the Last.
So you come back and say: "I am the Alpha and Omega" means "I am God" and this is your basis for concluding "Jesus is God" but 4 verses up in the same chapter John is specifically advised not to do this.
So yes, I am making fun of your logic. Whatever "Alpha and Omega" mean, the same "Alpha and Omega" said "I am a fellow servant of you and your brethren the prophets and you need to bow before God, not me" and what makes it really funny is that it was said only (4) verses before your "great God insight".
As to hot potatoes I would guess that chapter 5 is one since you are avoiding that question like one.
If your bible was good enough for you then you would not need Adam Clark or John Gill or Albert Barnes to explain it. The words explain themselves. You need to go back and tell Adam Clark and John Gill and Albert Barnes that Jesus said:
18 `For I testify to every one hearing the words of the prophecy of this scroll, if any one may add unto these, God shall add to him the plagues that have been written in this scroll,
19 and if any one may take away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the scroll of the life, and out of the holy city, and the things that have been written in this scroll;'
and then consider these words for yourself? Nobody here asked "what do you think it says" - the question was what does it say
The LAMB took a scroll from the right hand of God on the throne. The LAMB was not on the throne. Was this Jesus or not? Answer?
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