None of the analogies you have used here can be substantiated with scripture. Understand, I am declaring here that the baptism in the Holy Ghost is the new birth of the Spirit and not some "
second blessing". But the Bible is clear, as stated in Ephesians chapter one verses 13-14, that the Baptism in the Holy Ghost is God's sign of ownership on a life, and a validation that they have been redeemed by the blood.
Acts 10. And John 3. Yest that is in the Bible. The new birth is an analogy made by Jesus Himself. Born again of the water and the Spirit. Being born... You may not like it but there it is.
Granted, only those who have truly repented and surrendered to Christ can receive it, and normally, the party has already been baptized in water. But to say that they are "
in the birth canal" blah blah blah simply is not scripture. Repentance (including water baptism) is the birth canal, but Spirit baptism
IS the new birth.
[COLOR="rgb(139, 0, 0)"]Blah blah blah... Then you effectively say the same thing only saying the "birth canal" is repentance. How absolutely absurd to mock what I said then go and say essentially the same thing. Seriously???[/COLOR]
There is only one case in the Bible where someone received the Spirit prior to baptism, but that was a special case that God used to demonstrate that salvation was also for the Gentiles. The blood had been applied at Calvary for Cornelius as well. Based on his simple trust, God willingly filled him with the Spirit, proclaiming him to be part of the Body. Yes, God bent his own "
rules" concerning baptism, and that is his prerogative. And
I don't believe that Cornelius would have gone to Hell had he been killed on his way to the waters of baptism. But I find no scriptural support at all for the common practice of praying for people to receive the Spirit prior to water baptism. God does do it, but mainly because he having to work around someone's ignorance.
Okay so we erase scripture to fit your preconceived notion of scripture. Got it. So you do not see baptism as part of the new birth experience. So according to you he died in the birth canal, here is your quote:
"Repentance (including water baptism) is the birth canal, but Spirit baptism
IS the new birth. "
[COLOR="rgb(139, 0, 0)"]Seriously? Baptism is not an essential part of the new birth experience? Do you not understand that it is part of the new birth and for the remission of sins?[/COLOR]
But back to my original point. It is ludicrous and un-Biblical to say that someone is "
lost" or an "
abortion" who God has marked as his own by baptizing them with his Spirit. This does mean that God will not hold accountable the one who baptized them wrongly. But if the Spirit is in them, and they are bearing fruit, they are God's. Deal with it.
[COLOR="rgb(139, 0, 0)"]As far as "dealing with it" goes I am deal with it. The "un-biblical" doctrine is the doctrine you are professing here. This doctrine started with the Reformation are you aware of that? Historically speaking baptism has always universally been understood to wash away sin and effect the new birth. This "new" doctrine that started with the Reformers is what will send many to a Devil's hell.[/COLOR]
Now, if you want to consign them to Hell because they "
didn't obey the truth", be careful. Do you really want God to judge
YOU by that same standard? What truth are
YOU missing?
ALL of us, through human weakness and ignorance, are missing the mark on some point in scripture. If God judges us by the same standard we lay on those who have the Spirit but were baptized incorrectly, then Heaven will be empty my friend.
As for the Trinity issue, a perfect understanding of the Godhead is not a scriptural requirement for salvation. The very fact that God baptizes converts in Trinitarian churches with the Spirit is an indication of this. There is no sinner repenting in a Oneness altar or Trintarian altar who even knows that there is a disagreement between the two groups concerning the Godhead. I've never heard a Oneness preacher require that a new convert profess a belief in the Onensss doctrine before he'll baptize them or pray for them to receive the Spirit. This why Steve Epley's argument is so silly. It's no wonder some label us a cult with that kind of nonsense being taught.
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