You Be The Judge: Afp1996 vs Jason

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Jason

You most certainly ARE. I asked you why you used the scriptures about a fountain for cleansing from sin, and sprinkling to make clean as examples of Old Testament water baptism, and I pointed out that these scriptures refer to the cleansing through the blood of Christ.
If I took you wrong, you had the oppertunity to correct me, instead, you reply with..."Did John the Baptist invent baptism?"
So clarify your posistion, do those scriptrues refer to water baptism or to the blood of Christ?

Originally Posted by Jason

thanks for the tip

It is not a “tip.” What I gave you is a FACT. Here, let me help you with some scriptures…

The word Baptism means to immerse. It comes from the Greek word “BAPTIZO” which means “to immerse.” Sprinkling for baptism came several hundred years after Jesus’ time. Sprinkling is the Greek word “RANTIZO.”

Sprinkling (RANTIZO) was also a commandment of the Lord. This was done with a mixture of water and the ashes of a "red heifer.” It was only used in instances where the object to be cleansed was too large to pick-up and immerse. An example would be: the altar itself was too large to be immersed, so it was sprinkled, but the shovels used for the altar, and the priests who worked with the altar were immersed.

The Old Testament contains several references to baptism. These immersions are known as a “MIKVAH.” A mikvah is a pool or a gathering of water.

Leviticus 11:36
(36) Nevertheless a fountain or pit, wherein there is plenty of water, shall be clean: but that which toucheth their carcase shall be unclean.

Baptism is found in the Old Testament sacrifices and rituals. There was immersion for the hands, the hands and the feet, and the whole body. Immersion of the whole body was performed to correct a condition of ritual impurity and to restore the impure to a state of ritual purity. Ritual impurity could be viewed as SIN. The ritually impure person is prohibited from performing certain functions and participating in certain rites, so their immersion (baptism) would then render him again ritually clean.

Here is a listing of some of the mikvahs mentioned in the Old Testament:

1. Leviticus 13: 1-32 .......Cleansing of leprosy.
2. Numbers 19:18-19 .......Exposure to a dead body.
3. Leviticus 15:5-14 .......Exposure to a person with an unclean issue. An example is the woman with the issue of blood (Matt 9:20-22).
4. Leviticus 15:19-31 .......Cleansing from state of Niddah (“Set apart”) woman's monthly cycle. This was seen in 2 Samuel 11:2-4 in the story of David and Bathsheba's bath-time escapade. It was also used for Fasting or for a Nazarite oath.
5. Leviticus 12:2-4 .......Cleansing of a mother after childbirth. This was found in Luke 2:22, when Mary partook in a cleansing after Jesus’ birth.
6. Numbers 19:20 .......Ceremonially clean for worship in the Temple.
7. Exodus 29:4, 40:12 .......Installation/Consecration of the Priests.
8. Numbers 8:15 .......Levites to the service of God.
9. Leviticus 16:24-26 .......Priests on Yom Kippur/Day of Atonement had to before they would enter the Holy of Holies. It required an Immersion and a change of garments five times for that one service. The High Priest was not ritually impure, but there was a change of status with each time he stood before the LORD. “Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,” (Hebrews 10:19)
10. Leviticus 16:26 .......Priest with the scapegoat.
11. Leviticus 16:28 .......Priest with the ox sin offering.
12. Numbers 15:15 .......Immersion of a Proselyte/Jewish Convert. Males had to undergo circumcision and immersion. Females were converted at their Immersion.
13. Leviticus 19:8 .......Priests who burned the red heifer for its ashes.
14. Leviticus 1:9, 13 .......The washing of the burnt offering for atonement. This sacrifice consisted of male cattle, lambs, and goats. The priest washed the innards of the animal sacrificed, and burnt the outward parts with fire.

This last washing for the burnt offering is most like the baptism a person does to be Born Again as commanded in John 3:5 and Acts 2:38. Often the bronze laver found in the Tabernacle and Temple is spoken of as a type and shadow of this type New Testament baptism (See Exodus 30:18-21). The problem with this is the laver’s usage was limited to already consecrated priests. They used the laver to wash their hands and feet before ministering within the holy place. Consequently, the laver did not involve a full bodily immersion. Full immersion is required to both consecrate a man into the priesthood and before the High Priest stood before God in the Most Holy Place on Yom Kippur.

To see what the laver represents, one needs look no further than its own description. The laver was made from bronze mirrors. Such a finish allowed the priest to check his spotless appearance before ministering further into the Holy Place. This type reflective washing is what Paul spoke of when writing: “That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word” (Ephesians 5:26). The Word of God is the mirror that reflects the true image of a man. Water can remove the filth from a man’s flesh. But it takes God’s Word to wash away a man’s impurities so he can better appear in the image from which God fashioned him; this likeness is Jesus Christ! James said, “For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed” (James 1:23-25). James mentions the Word of God being like a “glass” or mirror. When the Word shows a person how they actually appear, they can then change to more reflect Christlikeness. Such transformation aligns to the “washing of water by the word,” mentioned by Paul. The Word allows man to cleanse himself from a marred fleshly image, so he can then more perfectly reflect the image of the Body of Christ. As a result, the laver more typifies the Word’s cleansing power than it does water baptism for conversion. A man or woman can appear as Christlike if they’re committed to continually realign their life to reflect God’s Word!

I hope that helped you see this more clearly.