Is the pastor the modern day Moses?

[gloryseeker]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

I understand what you are saying, but I have been getting a different thought over the last several years. The Idea has come to me that in the early church that the ministry of the individual groups were multipul and not singular. Made up of several persons not a singul person.

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Note Paul teaches us that God gave.... God did not give the church to the ministry but the other way around. Paul list the ministry commanly known as the five fold ministry. there is a distinct purpose for them. For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry the word for perfecting is better translated equiping, we have this idea that it is the minstrys job to straighten us the saints out. I don't think this is so

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

as we are instructed we are to work out our own salvation so what is the ministrys job? For the equiping of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Just as God gave the gifts of the spirit for the edifying of the body of Christ which is the church, God gave the ministry for the edifing of the body of Christ. Is there a single direct leader in the church I don't think so. Are we ready for things to be the way God disigned it to be I think we are closer then ever before. Several churches I have fellowshiped with are now set up much this way with the pastors as the main figure head but the church is actual controled by the ministring body.

And finallyyou referanced OT alot from the point of veiw that you are looking from but when you begin to see things from a differant point of view you see even the way OT examples look differently. At least I do. I am not trying to start and argument but I just wanted to throw a different point of view in here.

I don't disagree with what you've said, but I think the difference between what I am saying and what you are saying is that I am talking about structure and you are talking about purpose.

Notice in the verse you quoted (Eph 4:11). It says that He gave some... and some...and some...etc. Notice that He didn't give any "none." Everyone has (or should have) a ministry gift in their life including those operating in what has been termed the five-fold.

Back to what you said. The way I've said it many times is likening the church to a football gave. In football their are players and coaches. The coaches equip for the working of the game while the players go out and accomplish and do the work.

The church has it backwards. We have all the coaches on the field playing while all the players sit in the pews cheering the coaches on.

But my overall point is, there is a structure and throughout the Bible God uses individuals to lead groups.