Quote:
Originally Posted by philjones
Pelathais,
Are you saying that the reason we are not keeping our new converts and our young people is the fault of our positions on being a separated and readily identifiable, spiritually speaking, people?
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No, not at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by philjones
Must we compromise our uniqueness to retain what the power of the blood is supposed to keep? I honestly think the reason we are struggling, like most other groups, is the cultural propensity for post modern thought and moral relativism. I have found that the genuinely hungry stick. Those who are following emotion or a specific urgent need outside of salvation seldom hang around. I have not had any that have said oh it was the legalism that drove me away. Have you heard that?
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Yes I have. And it usually happens where the "legalism" is stressed in such a way that you have manipulation and not discipleship. I've seen entire congregations fall apart because the pastor and those in leadership insisted on doing things in such a heavy handed fashion.
Let me try to give examples without raising blame or pointing fingers (too much). Google "united pentecostal" and "cult." Look at the specific cases that are usually cited by some of the web sites you find. We all are probably familiar (and some what sick) of reading about some of these cases. Look at the individual churches and circumstances that occured.
I will contend that while, yes these are problematic situations, however the instances involved don't truly represent the UPC or "Apostolic" churches in general. In fact, the personalities are often known to have been "troublemakers" within the UPC. But these cases are real. peoples lives were impacted and this type of stuff happens a lot.
I think you, and others, are saying what I pointed out: "But they don't
represent Apostolic churches." Yes! Good!
But they
do happen. And the way to make it happen less is for
us to speak out about it- not the anti-UPC and anti-Apostolic people.
And you are correct ("struggling like most other groups..."). Thankfully we are not as bad as many other groups. In fact, I think we're better than most. But we have to be proactive, especially in a media dominated society. We have to be the ones out front condemning the things that are wrong.
Can you imagine the difference it would have made for the Catholic church if their bishops had jumped on the first set of pedophile priests and made examples out of them? It would have saved them $6 Billion dollars and a lot of grief. We have to do for ourselves what those men failed to do for themselves.
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