1000 year reign

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Ok no one is against THAT. Yes the devil is bound today to a certain extent. I think my posts agree with that.

That is my whole point. You spoke as though any reference to binding must mean the devil has no power at all today. But now that you realize BINDING of the devil does not mean ALL POWER of the devil is removed, you are seeing what I am trying to say about Rev 20. Rev 20's binding does not mean the devil has NO POWER during that time.

This "binding" issue is just a part of the entire doctrine of 1000 year reign. It should not be seen as the WHOLE ISSUE.

I never said it was. But I am using that point because Bro Epley and Jimmy Davis and so many others, including yourself, have said that this BINDING in Rev 20 means satan has no power at all left. Bro Epley always retorted, "If the devil is bound, then why is there crime?" But you have proved that binding the devil does not always mean the devil has no power at all, because you agree the devil is BOUND NOW "to a certain degree".

My whole argument has been that the devil is bound NOW, and we are in the days of Rev 20. Everytime I would say that, Bro Epley and others would say that is impossible, because the devil still can do things now, AS THOUGH BONDAGE OF THE DEVIL MEANS THE DEVIL HAS NO POWER LEFT. So I was focusing us all on the fact that bondage of the devil does not mean he is left with no power.

And for months I always responded saying that Rev 20 details the only form of BONDAGE the devil is experiencing. He is bound to not be able to deceive the nations into gathering them together against the holy city.

After months of saying this, I think I am finally able to let you folks understand why I have been saying this for so long. You are FINALLY starting to realize my point. (Took long enough! heh heh)

As you state the devil IS BOUND NOW, but only to a certain degree, Rev 20 also says the devil is bound to a CERTAIN DEGREE: He is ONLY SAID TO be loosed to gather the nations together against the church. (NOW READ THIS NEXT PART CLOSELY) HE IS NOT SAID TO BE LOOSED A LITTLE SEASON TO START UP DRUG LORDS AGAIN, TO CAUSE MURDER, TO CAUSE CRIME, TO CAUSE RAPE, ETC. That is because he was only bound in ONE AREA... to not be able to gather the nations AGAINST THE HOLY CITY, which I claim is the church.

CAN YOU SEE THIS POINT YET?

When satan is in the pit he is DOING NOTHING. Its when he comes out THEN he goes out to do his work.

Who says he is doing nothing in the pit??? Read above: He is only said to be loosed to gather nations against the church, as though that was the thing he could never do during the binding.

Jesus Christ has power over all things in Heaven and on Earth right now. But that does not mean he is currently exercising that power over the nations.

WHAT??? Give me scripture that states this expressly.

He most certainly is exercising that power. What is the sense of having it but not exercising it? He lifts kings up and tears them down at his will. But he also allows things to occur in order for His will to be done. And he is working in all of this in lieu of his Church as well. he allows things to occur to exercise His church down here in the affairs of tribulation, etc.

It seems in this life his focus is on building up the CHURCH AS HIS KINGDOM. As his holy nation.

I agree. But He does deal in national affairs. I think Hitler's demise was part of His direct work, for example.

He can and does do things in the Earth as he sees fit. He can cause nations to be blessed or he can cast lightning bolts of judgment upon them.

RIGHT! So He DOES exercise his influence.

Yet the Apostle Paul who probably knew the plan of God better than we do today still said satan was the god of this world.

RIGHT! Satan was STILL BOUND, though. As you admitted. But THAT BINDING is only to a degree.

4: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 2 Cor. 4:4

To those who may think Jesus is right now at this present reigning over the nations PLEASE CONSIDER THIS.

15: And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16: And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17: Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18: And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. Rev. 11:15-18

Has the seventh angel sounded? When it sounds THEN the kingdoms of this world will become the kingdoms of our Lord!

Yes the seventh angel has sounded. Partial preterism teaches all of Rev is fulfilled up to chapter 20.

We are in the days of the Lord's kingdom, like a mountain, STILL SPREADING out across the earth as the church continues to grow, in Daniel 2. There has never been a world power since Rome. There never will be one EXCEPT THE CHURCH. When the church has spread across the earth, the rapture will occur, but not before an attack of the devil in Rev 20 as he gathers the nations against the church.

THEN according to verse 17 he TAKES TO HIM HIS POWER AND REIGNS.

If he is already reigning why will he take to him his power and reign?

This was fulfilled.

Yet at his coming (seventh trumpet) there will come a fullblown manifestation of the things we now teach and believe are true.

18: For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19: For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20: For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21: Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22: For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23: And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24: For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25: But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

You are taking passages that DO NOT EXPRESSLY STATE THESE THINGS OCCUR in the order your prophecy teachings demand. YOU ARE FITTING THEM TOGETHER THIS WAY, but these scriptures do not expressly state, "The glory that shall follow is speaking about the time after the church age when a millennium begins." They only state there is a glory to be revealed in us, but they do not say anything about a 1000 year reign.

Can you not see that your references outside of Revelation 20 do not state expressly what you claim. They are not said to fit precisely where you claim they do? You ASSUME that is when the glory shall be revealed. You ASSUME the millennium is the point in time when that glory is revealed. But Paul never said that. He just said glory will be revealed.

Verse 23 puts this manifestation of the sons of God to deliver the groaning creation in context. AT THE REDEMPTION OF OUR BODIES.......THE SECOND COMING.

I agree! BUT NOTHING IS SAID ABOUT A MILLENNIUM THERE. I propose you are wrong about inserting a millennium there, because the millennium represents the church age. And when the resurrection occurs and our bodies are redeemed, the WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT OCCURS, and we enter into eternity future where we rule forevermore in glorified bodies, without a millennium afterwards.

Then we will deliver groaning creation. It will be set free also into the glorious liberty of the sons of God!

I agree! But where does Paul speak of 1000 years there?

If there is no kingdom on this Earth from the time of the adoption of our bodies WHAT GROANING CREATION will we set free?

Creation will be set free! But Paul said nothing about a 1000 years then. I already said, creation will be set free, NO MORE DEATH WILL OCCUR, since 1 Cor 15 says death is destroyed when Jesus returns. Your doctrine CONTRADICTS THAT since it teaches death still exists after Jesus returns during the millennium.

Paul makes this sound glorious! Some today make us feel like we believe a childs fairy tale when we teach it.

See? More misrepresentations! I believe all of this! Except I DO NOT BELIEVE A MILLENNIUM IS INVOLVED ANYWHERE except as symbolic of the church age NOW. OTHERWISE THERE IS A CONTRADICTION WITH OTHER SCRIPTURES.