History of Tithes in the Church

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Originally Posted by Esaias

The discussion is the contrast between full time ministry vs secular employment. It was framed as "Paul could have done full time ministry with no secular employment but he chose to do both, whereas ministers today can forego secular employment".

It was argued that Paul's instructions to the elders of the church in Ephesus was NOT instruction for ministers to do secular employment as an example or paradigm for today's minister, and then later it shifted to a minister can do both.

Thanks for clarifying what you meant. I was not sure what you were trying to say, and should have just asked for more clarity. I may still be missing your point.

You are equating secular employment in contrast to full time ministry with helping the poverty stricken, which is not what Paul meant whatsoever. I could ask you the same question. How could apostles do full time ministry and yet be instructed to help the poor if helping the poor was full-time as much as ministry was full-time?

Maybe I am still missing your point. Let me know.

When you said, "It was argued that Paul's instructions to the elders of the church in Ephesus was NOT instruction for ministers to do secular employment as an example or paradigm for today's minister, and then later it shifted to a minister can do both," you missed something in my words that I meant.

You seem to be saying that I shifted my argument of Paul's words in Acts 20. I actually did not. Acts 20 is not speaking of helping the poor in a full-time capacity comparable to full-time ministry. Acts 20 is speaking about the occasional need to help the poor, which is by no means full-time. Paul simply said that if you come across those who are poverty stricken, then help them out with some of your own work and give to them. That is by no means a full-time effort. All of us have helped the poor out in some capacity.

But in 1 Cor 9, Paul was talking about something totally different when he spoke of foregoing work.

Again, not sure if I am addressing your point to make the proper clarification of my words, but I did not switch back to saying a man can do full time work and full time ministry at the same time.

So my question was how does a minister FOREGO secular work while simultaneously doing secular work?

Your answer was a weak attempt at deflecting to something I didn't bring up.

I was not deflecting nor do I ever deflect in order to escape dealing with an issue. That is dishonesty. I will deal with your thoughts if I understand them properly. At best, I misunderstood your words. I am not being dishonest.

The of 1 Cor 9 that was Paul poke of foregoing was not the work of Acts 20. the work of Acts 20 was OCCASIONAL efforts to help the poor when the need arose. That was by no means required full time secular work to accomplish.

It was others insisting full time ministry precludes secular work. I simply noted that most full time ministers aren't actually full time. The Bible shows what full time ministry is, 99 and a half percent of ministers I've ever known don't do it the Bible way, and yes 99 and a half won't do just like the song says

When referring to full-time work, I do not know what your definition means, but I am referring to the current equivalent of today's 40 hours a week efforts that don't allow a minister to deal with saints in the way that could otherwise be done.