Quote:
Originally Posted by n david
You asked where in Hebrews 6:1-2 is tongues mentioned as salvational, doctrinal and foundational. It is certainly doctrinal and foundational, as pointed out already.
Is tongues salvific? IMO it is. You seem to try to take both sides by saying "sure, it's the initial evidence," but then stating it shouldn't be considered if you don't speak in tongues, you're going to hell.
Do you believe receiving the Holy Ghost is part of salvation, or subsequent to salvation? If you believe it's part of salvation, then a person must receive the Holy Ghost with the initial evidence being they speak in other tongues.
If you believe the Holy Ghost to be subsequent to salvation, then it's not important to have the initial evidence of tongues.
I would be classified a three-stepper. I believe repentance, and baptism of both water and the Holy Ghost, with the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues.
I do wholeheartedly agree with you that once the initial evidence has been exhibited, people should mature and demonstrate the fruit of the spirit in their lives. I would also agree that there is an overabundance of emphasis placed solely on tongues as a sign of salvation, rather than the gifts of the spirit. There's also the error of clothes and appearance being an indicator of salvation as well, but that's another discussion. |
Quote:
Originally Posted by n david
Again, it's to the churches -- the one's who have already received the initial evidence of speaking in tongues. 
In your argument about Paul's letters to Thessalonica, you mentioned well Paul had mentioned baptism a lot in other letters....to use that argument, Jesus already said you must be born of water and spirit
Oh, Jesus didn't mention baptism in Rev either...  |
The emphasis on tongues is wrong. Paul never once emphasized that, of which you have basically had to admit. The emphasis should rather be on fruits of the spirit. No Jesus didn't mention baptism in Rev, neither did he mention tongues, nor uncut hair, or beards, or any of the lovely issues that are dead horses around here.
Why not focus on what Paul taught constantly, and what Jesus saw as important .... fruit of the spirit needed to overcome?
Why indeed?
Because tongues are something that "man" can use to pinpoint, and wield authority with.... but the fruit of the spirit being something that the Lord can only really see into our hearts, and judge, thus the power to control and exert power and authority over people... that is WHY tongues are used to condemn people to hell... because it is something man can judge... but the LORD is the righteous judge, not man, and he is looking at our hearts, and if we are producing fruit of the spirit in our lives to overcome.
I see it this way... the OP uses the evidence of tongues to control and manipulate people in the way of man... the Lord's way is to judge the heart and the fruit, something man cannot do, unless he is operating through the gifts of the spirit.
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