I'm being bewitched.

[nahkoe]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I've even seen "demon possessed" persons. Not a single one of them had powers to hex people that I witnessed. I've heard of demon possession from first hand witnesses and there wasn't any special occult powers involved.

I have heard that some demon possessed persons exhibited supernatural strength but then again someone on PCP appears to have that kind of strength too.

Having power to hex people and actually hexing people are two kind of different things...

I haven't seen what you've seen, so no clue what it was that you saw.

These aren't the sort of things I was referring to when I said that there are occult powers.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by nahkoe

Occult dealer?

You know, some one who deals in "the occult." That "Otherside" guy who is so good at cold reading (Jonathan Edwards?) or anyone who has appeared on Oprah, Jerry, Tyra Banks and all of those shows.

Is there anyone who legitimately has "powers?" Is there anyone who can legitimately "call forth spirits" that we need to be on the look out for?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by nahkoe

Having power to hex people and actually hexing people are two kind of different things...

I haven't seen what you've seen, so no clue what it was that you saw.

These aren't the sort of things I was referring to when I said that there are occult powers.

Assuming for the sake of argument: Occult powers? Where does the POWER part come from? I assumed demons. Am I right?

[nahkoe]

Originally Posted by pelathais

You know, some one who deals in "the occult." That "Otherside" guy who is so good at cold reading (Jonathan Edwards?) or anyone who has appeared on Oprah, Jerry, Tyra Banks and all of those shows.

Is there anyone who legitimately has "powers?" Is there anyone who can legitimately "call forth spirits" that we need to be on the look out for?

Hah...those people are fakes too. I used to watch them just for the entertainment. Unfortunately, again, because they can make a good living being fakes...they present something other than reality to the public.

Pel, I've read tarot. I've told people things that there was *no freaking way* I could ever have known. I dunno how that works, but I know that it happened. I also know that because the readings I was doing were over the internet, and the times in question that *completely freaked me out* were with complete strangers, that it wasn't a body language or previous knowledge situation. The information was insanely specific, detailed, and without question. It wasn't a vague sort of cold reading technique (done that too...that's just fun mind games)

I know that for most occultists, they're beliefs and practice are their own and not subject to public appraisal.

I have also "called forth spirits". I don't talk about this stuff cuz it's one of those things that when I do, it just sounds....wonky and impossible. But I know what happened, I know the times things went the way I wanted them to, and the times things didn't go the way I wanted them to. I know that my beliefs were formed by experience and not vice versa.

I dunno about "being on the lookout" for stuff. I don't look out for it..it usually smacks me upside the head. But, while I'm aware there are those who have reason and ability to cast against me and my family, I'm not too worried about their influence specifically. If God is bigger than all of that..then He's big enough to deal with it too. When stuff does smack me upside the head...I run and let Mark deal with it. I really think most of the stuff going on in my life is me keeping a door open I really should close.... And the fact that there are two sides to the supernatural and I've changed sides.

[nahkoe]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Assuming for the sake of argument: Occult powers? Where does the POWER part come from? I assumed demons. Am I right?

I suppose demons, the devil, whatever else is on that side of the supernatural. I haven't really answered this question since I've left the occult. At that time, it was just energy and that energy was everywhere and I figured out that I could manipulate it and how to do so. The power came from that "energy", whatever that is.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by nahkoe

I suppose demons, the devil, whatever else is on that side of the supernatural. I haven't really answered this question since I've left the occult. At that time, it was just energy and that energy was everywhere and I figured out that I could manipulate it and how to do so. The power came from that "energy", whatever that is.

A lot of people describe their Christian walk in similar terms, though instead of "force" and "energy" they say "Spirit." Instead of "manipulate," they say "found power in the Spirit."

How would the average person be able to tell the difference?

... and I'm not talking about "dark" stuff here. You strike me as the kind of person who even when "bad" was probably generally benevolent to most folks.

How can we quantify the differences between "white magic" or "good witchcraft" from simple good human intentions? If our answer is simply "Christians use 'in the name of Jesus,'" then how can even those Christians differentiate the "feeling" of the "energy?"

I do believe in the power of spirits and the power that spirits can have over a place or a person's condition. I just see that as being "spiritual power" (or, hopefully, "the power of the Spirit"). Sometimes a crowd of human beings can generate an enthusiasm, or even an anger that goes beyond mere human capacities. We can ask any cop about this phenomena. Some of this may be "human energies;" but there is a component that can go beyond "human."

What's the difference between a bunch of people "getting excited about Jesus," and actually having the power and presence of Almighty God in a place? I regularly see both.

[nahkoe]

Originally Posted by pelathais

A lot of people describe their Christian walk in similar terms, though instead of "force" and "energy" they say "Spirit." Instead of "manipulate," they say "found power in the Spirit."

How would the average person be able to tell the difference?

I don't know. I struggle with this a lot. I'm probably overly cautious about all things having to do with the supernatural because of this very question. I definitely stay away from all things that include "I". "I" do not do anything...because "I" can do too much. If I'm involved at all, isn't that just personal manipulation of energy, control over a situation, and the opposite of submission to God?

Originally Posted by pelathais

... and I'm not talking about "dark" stuff here. You strike me as the kind of person who even when "bad" was probably generally benevolent to most folks.

How can we quantify the differences between "white magic" or "good witchcraft?" If our answer is simply "Christians used 'in the name of Jesus,'" then how can even those Christians differentiate the "feeling" of the "energy?"

There is no differentiation between "white magick" and "black magick". Any manipulation of energy is magick. This definitely causes me problems in church because I see things that move into this realm and it can be confusing and frustrating. If it's all magick, then the stuff I see in church is magick, and then what is God, is anything of God?

As for me being generally benevolent, this is true. I subscribed heavily to the law of three and what is known to many as the Wiccan rede.

Originally Posted by pelathais

I do believe in the power of spirits and the power that spirits can have over a place or a person's condition. I just see that as being "spiritual power" (or, hopefully, "the power of the Spirit"). Sometimes a crowd of humans beings can generate an enthusiasm, or even an anger that goes beyond mere human capacities. We can ask any cop about this phenomena. Some of this may be "human energies;" but there is a component that can go beyond "human."

What's the difference between a bunch of people "getting excited about Jesus," and actually having the power and presence of Almighty God in a place? I regularly see both.

I don't know... Again, I admit that I simply avoid everything having to do with the supernatural (as much as I possibly can) because I don't know the answers here. I have people telling me "this is God" and everything inside of me is screaming "this is magick". I don't know who to trust or what to trust. I find myself leaning more towards magick these days than towards God...at least I know magick, it's familiar and comfortable and I am aware of the limitations....and it doesn't make quite as many claims.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by pelathais

What's the difference between a bunch of people "getting excited about Jesus," and actually having the power and presence of Almighty God in a place?

The difference is huge!!

[Flutecrafter]

Originally Posted by pelathais

So, are you shakin' in your boots?

why should I?

Do you dread the evil emanations coming up from Brazil, Haiti and other hot beds of the occult?

Been to Haiti, lots of suffering there

Do you avoid ladders, black cats and chicken gizzards?

should I?

People do live in fear, that's what I was warning against. But all of the mumbo-jumbo and "Pigs in the Parlor" nonsense that goes around in Christian circles actually pumps up the devil and does very little to set people free.

ROFL what those in 'christian circles' actually know about the occult is
pathetically little. I alternate between being relieved and annoyed by that.
Guess which end of the pendelum I'm swinging on this week.....

If you're happy with "ministries" and activity like Bob Larson, Mike Warnke and other exposed frauds - go for it. Growing up, educating oneself and living in the 21st Century will give you far more power than a string of garlic.

Ah yes, Bob and Mike... a good bit of damage they have done.
Growing up, educating myself and living in the 21st century did indeed give
me far more power than a string of garlic. Power that God has mandated
for me to never use again.

My assertion still stands. Your mumbo-jumbo is useless. The "spells" and incantations of the occult are make-believe nonsense. Pandering to this tripe is what gets people bound. Take a stand against bondage and promote healthy living and the freedom we have in Jesus Christ.

This last paragraph is merely showing that you are having extreme difficulty with the
English language at the moment. Otherwise you would have noted that:
I am a former occultist.
The Scriptures in Exodus prove you are incorrect
I promote Jesus and His offer of freedom.

[Flutecrafter]

Originally Posted by pelathais

mark, in answer to your hype let me say that your "Majik" is bunk. It's plain bunk. It can never do anything for you or anyone else that random chance and coincidence won't do for you - and you don't have to pay a medium.

"Magik" is NOT REAL. It's bunk.

then you are calling God a liar.

You also leap to conclusions here that are unwarranted by anything that I have said concerning the "name of Jesus."

You're the one playing around with the occult. You're the one pumping up "the devil's magical powers."

I left the occult many years ago, so again, you are having difficulty
with the written language skills.

I am very close to God when I say, "It's all a bunch of bunk." I've provided Scripture to support this, but your aversion to the realities of the Word of God appear to have caused you lose sight of that.

hard for you to be close to God when you are calling Him a liar and
encouraging someone to sin.

If you have come on here to promote your own silliness I will stand up to you. I stand up to bullies all the time. Bring your "powers" and such. As I've said, it's all a bunch of bunk. I've seen the depths and darkness that this kind of pagan superstition leads to, even when cloaked with "Christian" verbiage.

you have no idea.

Any time, any place bro. The fact that you reel and run from reality - AND the way that you run from the implications of your own words - indicates that you probably haven't had much luck with this "Magik" in any form.

try going back and reading your bible.