Acts 2:38

[Sam]

Originally Posted by sandie

I've been reading past posts on the Yadons. I forget the lettering, PCJ or something like that...I had NO idea the Yadons were/are "one steppers", if that's a correct saying to describe not needing obedience to Acts 2:38. I'm stunned. I sat under Bud Yadon and Loren Yadon for the better part of the '90s and never, ever knew.
So, suffice it to say they do not teach on this...at least not that I ever heard.
Scratch that last part...they do not preach/teach this, I would have heard it. I'm not doubting they don't believe Acts 2:38 as a necessity, I'm just reeling at learning this.

I also knew Hack Yadon and other Yadons and it just never ever came up! Hack Yadon attended the same church I did and dedicated my granddaughter to the Lord. He has since passed on.

How can one sit with, know, fellowship wiht, be taught by and not know how they believe???
Was it me? Was I never listening? I have to mull this over and pray, it really has shook me up to believe one thing and learn another. I love the Yadon's to pieces, and always will, no matter what!
Those Wed. night bible studies with Loren Yadon were priceless, I always felt we were getting a college education for free! I still have every bit of notes I took and all the hand outs he gave us, I miss those studies.
Well, guess I'm rambling again. Thanks to everyone for their input.
God bless.

PCI ministers preach and practice Acts 2:38.
They preach baptism in Jesus' name.
They preach the Holy Ghost Baptism.
They just don't believe water baptism and Spirit baptism are necessary for salvation.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by sandie

Hi,
I'm new so this has probably been talked to pieces, so please forgive.

I was baptized in the Name of Jesus 37 years ago, but not until recently have I been convinced, convicted, consomething on it's absolute neccesity to salvation. But, there it is, all the same.

However, I don't believe the dress standards are a part of salvation...just thought I'd throw that out there to really mix things up!

I was baptized in a UPC church and attended several in the past. My last oneness pastor was/is a Yadon...I'm sure that name is familiar to UPC goers.
Love that family!

I now attend a trinity pentecostal church (though I do NOT believe in any trinity doctrine)...it's a Foursquare church and ironically (or not) it was in a Foursquare tent revival I recieved the baptisim of the Holy Ghost 40 years ago.

So, I'm wondering about others opinions on this subject: Surely if Jesus said those who believe and are baptized will be saved, He meant it...this is what is playing over and over in my spirit.

Any thoughts?

I haven't taken the time yet to catch up on the whole thread so forgive me if I cover ground that's already been discussed.

Don't you feel that your fellow "Four Square" attendees are "saved?" I imagine that they have all "believed and been baptized..."

What is it about the phonetic pronunciation of the syllables "gee-sus" that makes you think this act imparts a salvation that is unavailable to believers in general? The phonetic "gee-sus" wasn't even developed linguistically until some time in the early Middle Ages. Who knows how many hundreds of thousands if not millions of authentic baptisms were performed from the time of the apostles until the development of the "name" "gee-sus?"

[sandie]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I haven't taken the time yet to catch up on the whole thread so forgive me if I cover ground that's already been discussed.

Don't you feel that your fellow "Four Square" attendees are "saved?" I imagine that they have all "believed and been baptized..."

What is it about the phonetic pronunciation of the syllables "gee-sus" that makes you think this act imparts a salvation that is unavailable to believers in general? The phonetic "gee-sus" wasn't even developed linguistically until some time in the early Middle Ages. Who knows how many hundreds of thousands if not millions of authentic baptisms were performed from the time of the apostles until the development of the "name" "gee-sus?"

I don't question someone's salvation, that is for God to know. I don't know you, but I don't think I like the way you are using the Name of Jesus.

I understand that it is an English pronounciation, however, in my heart and in the heart of others it is still the Name above all Names and should be honored, imo.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

That would be my view as well. Whether justification occurs at the time of sincere calling on the Lord in repentance is another question though.

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Well I did read that, but am not convinced that being "pierced their heart" is evidence they received the Holy Spirit.

Similarly when Agrippa said to Paul, "Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian" it's not evidence of the indwelling Spirit. I would say it is indeed evidence of the Spirit convicting, working on hearts - yes. A necessary precursor to salvation but perhaps not evidence of existing salvation.

Correct. There is quite a difference between conviction and repentance. In fact there is quite a difference between belief, and simple faith.

No doubt many sinners have believed what was preached to them, however their refusal to repent (which Jesus said is merely because they love darkness rather than light-John 3) is evidence that there is more to salvation than conviction. There is a difference between dead faith and saving faith.

The reason we know that these people possesd true faith is because they acted upon their faith as we see beggining in verse 41 through the remainder of the chapter.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Correct. There is quite a difference between conviction and repentance. In fact there is quite a difference between belief, and simple faith.

No doubt many sinners have believed what was preached to them, however their refusal to repent (which Jesus said is merely because they love darkness rather than light-John 3) is evidence that there is more to salvation than conviction. There is a difference between dead faith and saving faith.

The reason we know that these people possesd true faith is because they acted upon their faith as we see beggining in verse 41 through the remainder of the chapter.

Bingo. Another reason why it's unfair to say (as many do) "even the devil believes, therefore it's not enough"... The devil does not have saving faith at all, not to mention Saving Faith will produce further continuing evidences.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Bingo. Another reason why it's unfair to say (as many do) "even the devil believes, therefore it's not enough"... The devil does not have saving faith at all, not to mention Saving Faith will produce further continuing evidences.

I think we're "seeing eye to eye" on this one.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

The best study can be how the two groups united when they believe a little differently. Both believe Acts 2:38 was the right plan of salvation, regardless of when forgiveness of sins took place. I think its good to look at the overall picture and thank God these men stood for apostolic truth. They were ridiculed and exiled out of their denominal churches for a reason, because they stood for something that was not popular.

Originally Posted by onefaith2

Have you not heard the stories of tomatoes being throwed, churches being burned down, lives being threatened when they preached the apostolic message?

Very few Oneness Pentecostals (most of whom now appear to want to be called "Apostolics") were ever in a "denominal church." There was the 1916 affair with the AoG, but few of the AoG men ("Jesus Onlys" included) would have described the AoG as a "denomination" in those days.

Pentecostalism in general was often resisted by many people in the communities targeted for "evangelism." While the Pentecostals were mostly just following the same well established methods of outreach that were developed in the Holiness Movements (street preaching, tent meetings, etc), a lot of folks in smaller towns felt intimidated by the Pentecostals and often took the preaching as if they were being preached to as "inferior Christians."

There was a lot of misunderstanding on both sides.

"Churches being burned down" is a bit of an over-reaching claim, I think. While facing most any kind of "hassling" can be cruel, there is really little evidence of any real persecutions in North America. Overseas, of course there has been some very real martyrdom.

From my experience, most of the claims of "persecution" on the part of OPs tend to be inventive justification for holding an arrogant attitude toward other believers. We don't have the history that we have claimed. We don't have the "Greek" and "Hebrew" that we have claimed, so we have to come up with something.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by sandie

I don't question someone's salvation, that is for God to know. I don't know you, but I don't think I like the way you are using the Name of Jesus.

I understand that it is an English pronounciation, however, in my heart and in the heart of others it is still the Name above all Names and should be honored, imo.

I see it a bit differently. Jesus Christ Himself is "above every name that is named" (Ephesians 1:20-23).

I think that you are certainly correct about what's "in your heart" and even the hearts of a lot of other people. And, I was using a common phonetic pronunciation method of spelling to illustrate that I was saying "Jesus" as "gee-sus" and not, "hay-suse" or "yah-shu-a" or any of the other pronunciations that people use to identify the One Who died for our sins at Calvary.

You exhibit wisdom in refusing to judge the salvation of other believers. I was commenting on your opening statement about "it's (Acts 2:38 'Three Step') absolute necessity to salvation."

It does appear that you have something of a contradiction that you are wrangling with. Either those Four Square folks had better line up with "Acts 2:38" and soon, or they're lost.

Or, they are saved without the specific enunciation of "In Jesus' name" when they are water baptized and your current ruminations are leading you astray. It's got to be one or the other.

Another thought, I have never met any type of Christian who was NOT "baptized in Jesus' name" (however "Jesus" may have been pronounced). All believers are baptized that they are "all baptized into one body..." Even the traditional folks who use a lot of ritual and enunciate Matthew 28:19, as a "formula" do so "in the name of Jesus Christ;" or at least they profess to.

[fireofGod1996]

Jesus said come as you are.

[Aquila]

Just obey it in accordance to your best understanding. God knows who are His and who are not.