Do you feel at all responsible?

[nahkoe]

I handle this exactly the same way I did when I was bisexual and in relationships.

I teach my children to respect *all* people. Period. I teach them to respect another person's right to believe what they want to believe. I teach them that the earth was always round, even when the majority of people believed it was flat. I teach them that in the same way, the truth about God never changes no matter what anyone believes.

Ok..so maybe I wasn't teaching the part about God and truth never changing when I was bi.

But I have always stressed respect. Now, I stress the love of God too. I stress that His love was big enough for Him to sit and eat with sinners, to seek them out, to fellowship with them, to heal them, to minister to them.

I don't think this current stuff is really a church caused problem. I don't think the preaching on love the sinner/hate the sin has helped, though. I think the issue is pretty much a people issue. You'll find those who isolate anyone different in every group, it's the isolation and idea that "our way is the only way" that causes problems. And that's definitely not exclusive to Christianity.

[Godsdrummer]

Haven't posted on this part of the forum yet but could not help it.

Love the person not the sin? How in the heck do you do that? Did Jesus love you that way before you came to him. He went to the cross for you when you were yet a sinner. He loved YOU THE SINNER before you came to him.

When God walked the earth he sought out the demon posesed, he went to the sinners house for dinner. And we say don't be friends with them? How else do you think you will see them come to God. We are Christ in the world today if you don't reach them no one else will.

Homosexality is a sin against themselves, and no one else they are not hurting anyone but themselves, and some say don't be friends with them? Yet murderes and rapist can walk among us and we could have them for dinnner and expose them to our children because we don't know that they are murderers or rapist until thier caught. How double standard can one get.

I love everyone regardless of who they are, till they do me wrong they are my friend and I treat them that way.

I have been friends with a gay/bisexual man for years, he even made the wedding dress for my daughter in/law in my sons wedding. I worked with a lezbian several years ago and we had her and her mate over for dinner. It is a sin just like everyother sin and we should treat them no different than anyone else that is a sinner.

[Truthseeker]

How would this come into play?

Eph 5:11-13
1 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
KJV

[nahkoe]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

How would this come into play?

Eph 5:11-13
1 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
KJV

Don't sin. Don't court sin. Don't allow sin in your personal life to fester and grow. Expose it to yourself, to God, to those you're accountable to. Don't let the things you think and do stew in darkness, unexposed, to grow and destroy you from the inside out. Verses 1-10 are important context.

1Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

2And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

3But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

4Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

5For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

6Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

7Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

8For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

9(For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth

10Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.

This isn't talking to sinners, and it's not talking about fellowship with sinners, it's talking about fellowship with *sin*. Don't let it sit hidden in the shadows of your life to destroy you. Deal with it, live pure before God and those around you. That has nothing to do with having dinner with a homosexual. It's got everything to do with taking them to your bedroom after dinner.

[Margies3]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

How would this come into play?

Eph 5:11-13
1 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
KJV

Maybe we should ask Jesus what he was doing when he ate with sinners then? You don't have to BECOME like them in order to be their friend. But I do think that we have to follow the example that Jesus set for us.

Originally Posted by nahkoe

Don't sin. Don't court sin. Don't allow sin in your personal life to fester and grow. Expose it to yourself, to God, to those you're accountable to. Don't let the things you think and do stew in darkness, unexposed, to grow and destroy you from the inside out. Verses 1-10 are important context.

1Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

2And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

3But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

4Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

5For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

6Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

7Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

8For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

9(For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth

10Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.

This isn't talking to sinners, and it's not talking about fellowship with sinners, it's talking about fellowship with *sin*. Don't let it sit hidden in the shadows of your life to destroy you. Deal with it, live pure before God and those around you. That has nothing to do with having dinner with a homosexual. It's got everything to do with taking them to your bedroom after dinner.

Very good answer.

[Margies3]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Haven't posted on this part of the forum yet but could not help it.

Love the person not the sin? How in the heck do you do that? Did Jesus love you that way before you came to him. He went to the cross for you when you were yet a sinner. He loved YOU THE SINNER before you came to him.

When God walked the earth he sought out the demon posesed, he went to the sinners house for dinner. And we say don't be friends with them? How else do you think you will see them come to God. We are Christ in the world today if you don't reach them no one else will.

Homosexality is a sin against themselves, and no one else they are not hurting anyone but themselves, and some say don't be friends with them? Yet murderes and rapist can walk among us and we could have them for dinnner and expose them to our children because we don't know that they are murderers or rapist until thier caught. How double standard can one get.

I love everyone regardless of who they are, till they do me wrong they are my friend and I treat them that way.

I have been friends with a gay/bisexual man for years, he even made the wedding dress for my daughter in/law in my sons wedding. I worked with a lezbian several years ago and we had her and her mate over for dinner. It is a sin just like everyother sin and we should treat them no different than anyone else that is a sinner.

[Margies3]

Originally Posted by nahkoe

I don't think this current stuff is really a church caused problem. I don't think the preaching on love the sinner/hate the sin has helped, though. I think the issue is pretty much a people issue. You'll find those who isolate anyone different in every group, it's the isolation and idea that "our way is the only way" that causes problems. And that's definitely not exclusive to Christianity.

I agree. I don't think it is a church CAUSED problem. I think it is a society caused problem. But the church, if we're being honest, has been a part of the problem. I've rarely ever heard anyone preach against the SIN of homosexuality. I've heard alot of comments from the pulpits and from saints saying with disgust, "he (or she) is a homo" or "look at the way he walks. You just know what he is" or things to that effect. And then our kids hear that - and guess what they say!

I've always heard it said, "If you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem." I'm not saying that we could save all of these kids. Maybe not even one of these kids. But I do think we should stop and take a minute to think about how we, as adults, handle our call from the Lord to love as HE loves and to act accordingly. Who knows? Maybe if just one of these kids had been able to find a friend in one of our kids, and then if that kid had been brought to just one of our homes where they could have been exposed to the love of God in just one family, MAYBE a life could have been saved. Who knows?

[nahkoe]

Originally Posted by Margies3

I agree. I don't think it is a church CAUSED problem. I think it is a society caused problem. But the church, if we're being honest, has been a part of the problem. I've rarely ever heard anyone preach against the SIN of homosexuality. I've heard alot of comments from the pulpits and from saints saying with disgust, "he (or she) is a homo" or "look at the way he walks. You just know what he is" or things to that effect. And then our kids hear that - and guess what they say!

I've always heard it said, "If you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem." I'm not saying that we could save all of these kids. Maybe not even one of these kids. But I do think we should stop and take a minute to think about how we, as adults, handle our call from the Lord to love as HE loves and to act accordingly. Who knows? Maybe if just one of these kids had been able to find a friend in one of our kids, and then if that kid had been brought to just one of our homes where they could have been exposed to the love of God in just one family, MAYBE a life could have been saved. Who knows?

I don't disagree with you. I still don't admit anything about my past in real life*. It's too dangerous for me and for my children, and that's coming from a saved and set free position within the local church. I do think the church needs to get busy being the church and stop being the judge and jury. It's taken me awhile to come to a place where I don't just turn ugly when this topic comes up. I *know* how I've been treated by "christians" and the "church" and I know how much trouble that's caused me in approaching God and accepting that He really does love me. And that's where I think the church fails people.

At risk of giving away too much (hello flutecrafter...:P) I'm still struggling with this so, so, so much. I'm in a position where I have no real choice but to accept the kind of love that I see in the Bible. But I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop, the flip side, the "do this or else.." that I'm familiar with. Even knowing that this is what the Bible talks about, what God has told Christians to be like, and seeing it every day, I'm still very cautious because of all the past experiences I've had. It'd be a lot easier if I'd accept this at face value...instead of backing away from it over and over again and putting myself right back in a dark corner with God and everyone else way over there...

By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

*except to very select people

[Cindy]

Sin is it's own torment in our lives. Any sin, outside pressures just add to it. As Christians we are to love, period. Not pick and choose which sinner to love. Fellowship is easier with like minded people. And it starts early in our lives, as we are shaped by environment. Parents are the first models for our lives. Some good, some maybe not so good. But when we have Jesus in our hearts, we love people, and love them enough to want them to be saved.

[Truthseeker]

2 Cor 6:14-17

14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
KJV