Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by OnTheFritz

Is there some hidden meaning in your misspelling of his name?

Yeah, I can't type great after working all night.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Maximilian

His point was the KKK, no matter how much we despite them as believers, consider themselves to be Christian believers, and are known to be a fringe Christian group (ie, radical group) that have historically been responsible for the death and murder of innocent people. The point actually isn't comparing crime-to-crime, but rather radicals to the so-called "mainstream."

I have agreed that there are fringe groups that claim some form of Christianity, but none are doing what the radical Islamics are doing, at least not on any kind of global threat level.

That is the determining difference, and why the US and the free world should not accommodate the encroachment of Islam. US law enforcement very effectively contains the KKK and all fringe groups in America!!

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Aquila

The Radical Muslims believe that they are called to distablize the world to hasten the coming of the Islamic "messiah" the al-Mahdi. I assure you, if one appears on the world scene and has all the signs of being the al-Mahdi, unifies the Muslim peoples of the Middle East, and declares himself the al-Mahdi, even the Moderate Muslims will become extremely DANGEROUS to any society. They will advocate turning to Sharia Law politically, as they are doing in Europe, or they will advocate violent installation of Sharia Law through Jihadist militarism.

Islam, even Moderate Islam, is more than merely a religious system. In Islam as a whole there isn't a distinction between the state and religion. While Moderate Muslims publically decry the violent tactics of extremists, they still have the desire to see Islamic Sharia Law cover the earth as the waters cover the seas. They are pushing to have their holidays nationally recognized and to enfluence the public school systems as we speak.

These are the facts that the liberals are so blind to, and refuse to "man up" to the dangers. Just as Chamberlain did toward Hitler, he was so proud of himself for working out an agreement with Hitler, and proclaiming that England was safe and would not be attacked!!! Churchill was demonized as a warmonger. Peace thru strength, and watchfulness was Reagan's approach, and his policies influence the downfall of the USSR, now the Demo's in power are reversing many of those gains.

But I speak as a fool, for it is not the strength of men, but the Lord that is our salvation!!! Does that mean that we are to be willfully blind to the obvious dangers around us???

[coadie]

Mr. Obama recalled the opening lines of the Arabic call to prayer, reciting them with a first-rate accent. In a remark that seemed delightfully uncalculated (it’ll give Alabama voters heart attacks), Mr. Obama described the call to prayer as “one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset.”

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by Aquila

The Radical Muslims believe that they are called to distablize the world to hasten the coming of the Islamic "messiah" the al-Mahdi. I assure you, if one appears on the world scene and has all the signs of being the al-Mahdi, unifies the Muslim peoples of the Middle East, and declares himself the al-Mahdi, even the Moderate Muslims will become extremely DANGEROUS to any society. They will advocate turning to Sharia Law politically, as they are doing in Europe, or they will advocate violent installation of Sharia Law through Jihadist militarism.

Islam, even Moderate Islam, is more than merely a religious system. In Islam as a whole there isn't a distinction between the state and religion. While Moderate Muslims publically decry the violent tactics of extremists, they still have the desire to see Islamic Sharia Law cover the earth as the waters cover the seas. They are pushing to have their holidays nationally recognized and to enfluence the public school systems as we speak.

A religion that wants to have national holidays? How dare they!

They have an idealogy of a theocracy? Never heard of that before outside of Islam!

I don't deny that Islam has an agenda and mission to "evangelize the world." But you insist on stigmatizing all American Muslims as being supporters of 9/11 terrorists. It equals to nothing more than Islamaphobia. A moderate Mulslim's desire to "evangelize the earth" should not preclude them from being able to build a place of worship.

I oppose the Mosque building on different grounds. More of a PR issue for Muslims, since this particular Imam refuses to denounce terrorism, calling it a "complex issue."

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by crakjak

These are the facts that the liberals are so blind to, and refuse to "man up" to the dangers. Just as Chamberlain did toward Hitler, he was so proud of himself for working out an agreement with Hitler, and proclaiming that England was safe and would not be attacked!!! Churchill was demonized as a warmonger. Peace thru strength, and watchfulness was Reagan's approach, and his policies influence the downfall of the USSR, now the Demo's in power are reversing many of those gains.

But I speak as a fool, for it is not the strength of men, but the Lord that is our salvation!!! Does that mean that we are to be willfully blind to the obvious dangers around us???

Oh brother...

Don't be naive to the dangers, but over-reaction and paranoia only make Jesus Followers look like freaks. Protest when it's appropriate. The arguments some of my brothers have given reveal much about their worldviews and attitudes, and it's frankly disappointing.

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by crakjak

I have agreed that there are fringe groups that claim some form of Christianity, but none are doing what the radical Islamics are doing, at least not on any kind of global threat level.

That is the determining difference, and why the US and the free world should not accommodate the encroachment of Islam. US law enforcement very effectively contains the KKK and all fringe groups in America!!

The argument isn't one of degree, it's of substance. Fringe groups do evil, not all non-fringe groups do evil. It's logic, Crakjak.

The bolded bothers me. The US should not accommodate the "encroachment" of any "established" religion, but promote freedom of worship for all. Sounds like if you had things your way, you'd ban Islam from the US? It's amazing how little the Constitution means to people when it gets in the way of their conflicting idealogies.

[BeenThinkin]

Originally Posted by Maximilian

A religion that wants to have national holidays? How dare they!

They have an idealogy of a theocracy? Never heard of that before outside of Islam!

I don't deny that Islam has an agenda and mission to "evangelize the world." But you insist on stigmatizing all American Muslims as being supporters of 9/11 terrorists. It equals to nothing more than Islamaphobia. A moderate Mulslim's desire to "evangelize the earth" should not preclude them from being able to build a place of worship.

I oppose the Mosque building on different grounds. More of a PR issue for Muslims, since this particular Imam refuses to denounce terrorism, calling it a "complex issue."

How do you propose to deferintate between the two groups? I remember that recently, from within our own military one rose up and killed several of our own soldiers. He was "rubbing shoulders" with them until he pulled the trigger. Also recently 8 or 9 Muslim individuals, circulating among the American citizenry, were arrested for their terrorist activities! So, do we just sit by and wait while they "kill us from within?" What would a weapon of germ warfare or nuclear warfare set off in the middle of New York do to the people living there? Don't just criticize us for being suspicious .... give us a solution! Words are cheap! And some of the words I've seen on this thread are "cheap, cheap!"

Been Thinkin

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by BeenThinkin

How do you propose to deferintate between the two groups? I remember that recently, from within our own military one rose up and killed several of our own soldiers. He was "rubbing shoulders" with them until he pulled the trigger. Also recently 8 or 9 Muslim individuals, circulating among the American citizenry, were arrested for their terrorist activities! So, do we just sit by and wait while they "kill us from within?" What would a weapon of germ warfare or nuclear warfare set off in the middle of New York do to the people living there? Don't just criticize us for being suspicious .... give us a solution! Words are cheap! And some of the words I've seen on this thread are "cheap, cheap!"

Been Thinkin

Well, I'm sure your words are costly and extravagant, but I'll attempt to reply to your question:

I don't think ANYONE has a solution per se (meaning, this will "fix everything"), including either you nor I. I know what's NOT the solution, and what's NOT the solution is to spit on the Constitution, spit on fellow citizens who espouse a religion that has fringe radicals, very much like fringe-like and radical-like Christian groups and militias. We need to back away from xenophobia and islamaphobia and think about this in an objective way, rather than an emotional, blathering red neck way.

I do know there's more to the solution than silly assumptions that all Muslims are terrorists. I know there's more questions on the interrogation sheet. In the background checks. In the checkbox for "red flags."

It's factually true that "they" aren't all (or even mostly) radical Muslim fundamentalists.

How do you propose to deferintate between the two groups?

There's more than "two groups." But the differentiation isn't difficult. Do they have terrorism relationships/connections? Are they holding training camps? Are they smuggling weapons? Are they spewing out statements about destroying the American people? Just a few ways to "differentiate."

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Maximilian

I don't think ANYONE has a solution per se (meaning, this will "fix everything"), including either you nor I.

I always enjoy reading anything by Joseph C. Phillips. He has an article in townhall that I read this morning. I will reference this quote by him and I think it does give us a solution.

There are a number of things citizens have a right to do—things that the constitutional protection of speech protects—that people of good conscience choose not to do and that others might view as offensive or insulting.

Tolerance, compassion, and a respect for the feelings of others might lead the builders of the mosque to issue a statement, saying something along the lines of:

“While we strongly disagree with the sentiments of those opposed to the location of this center, we understand and are sympathetic to the deep emotions fueling those sentiments. Moreover, we are respectful of those feelings and, so, in the name of love, we are going to move our mosque a few blocks up the street. It is our sincere hope that this gesture will be the beginning of a healing process that will put us all on the path to a victory of our common humanity over the ideals that fueled the horrible events of 9/11/01. We are dedicated to making this center a beacon of hope, learning, and compassion not only for the city of New York, but for the entire nation.”

http://townhall.com/columnists/Josep..._mosque/page/1