For those that left the UPC... - Page 26

Jack Shephard · #**251** 05-28-2010, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

The bible does not teach what happened when Jesus breathed on them. It could very well have simply been a FORESHADOW of the day of Pentecost, when the mighty rushing wind blew and they were filled!

It might have been a foreshadowing, but I don't believe it was. I don't see how it was a forshadowing really. I think that the spirit of God filled them then or better said began to fill them. I am not sure that the HG is given all at once. It might be. The HG does many things. Tongues is a by product of the HG, but not the only by product, IMO.

Godsdrummer · #**252** 05-28-2010, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

In acts they spoke in tongues when the holy ghost fell, simple enough for me.

Could that be because you just don't want to be wrong in the face of others that have the spirit of God that have not spoken in tongues?

One of the hardest things for me was addmiting that I was wrong, the world that opened up when I did was worth it. The spiritual growth in my family has been trememdous. But many from our old way don't see this because they are too wrapped up in the change to the outside that goes against thier teachings.

Godsdrummer · #**253** 05-28-2010, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

It might have been a foreshadowing, but I don't believe it was. I don't see how it was a forshadowing really. I think that the spirit of God filled them then or better said began to fill them. I am not sure that the HG is given all at once. It might be. The HG does many things. Tongues is a by product of the HG, but not the only by product, IMO.

I agree

Truthseeker · #**254** 05-28-2010, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

It might have been a foreshadowing, but I don't believe it was. I don't see how it was a forshadowing really. I think that the spirit of God filled them then or better said began to fill them. I am not sure that the HG is given all at once. It might be. The HG does many things. Tongues is a by product of the HG, but not the only by product, IMO.

John 7:38-39

38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
KJV

"for the holy ghost was not given yet" Why? because that Jesus was not yet glorified. If being filled is our resurrection then it can't precede his resurrection.

Truthseeker · #**255** 05-28-2010, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Could that be because you just don't want to be wrong in the face of others that have the spirit of God that have not spoken in tongues?

.

No, I think it's more because in acts they spoke in tongues when the holy ghost fell.

Falla39 · #**256** 05-28-2010, 09:10 PM

Last Sunday, Pentecost Sunday, a young 24 yr old African man who
had visited for his fourth time, began weeping during the first song.
Wept all during the service as a veteran missionary to Africa preach-
ed a message, "Is Pentecost Still Revelant Today". He then asked us
all to come forward and asked us all to repent. If nothing else let's
repent for what we haven't done.

Koffi fell to his knees and continued to weep and then got up and
asked to be baptized in Jesus Name. As he came up out of the water,
he started praising and worshipping. Suddenly a big smile came on
his face as as he continued to praise and worship. He began to speak
with tongues as the Spirit gave the utterance. Koffi knew French and
English, as well as the missionary. He informed the pastor that he had
received the Holy Spirit. Wed. night he was so happy and joyous. This
young man works for one of our sons in his commercial Technology
company. Our youngest son also works with his older brother. He had
invited Koffi and he had come three times before Sunday. He loved it
from the very first.

Tongues are the language of the Spirit. When we receive the Holy Ghost,
we connect and speak in the language of the Spirit! He gives the utterance.
GOD is in control,

Falla39

Falla39 · #**257** 05-28-2010, 09:22 PM

Paul speaking to the Galatians:
Gal.1:6,7
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

Falla

Jack Shephard · #**258** 05-28-2010, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

John 7:38-39

38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
KJV

"for the holy ghost was not given yet" Why? because that Jesus was not yet glorified. If being filled is our resurrection then it can't precede his resurrection.

Ok. He is talking about the spirit or "living water" that is given to everyone that believes in Him...not tongues. If it was a forshadowing it was a forshadowing of his spirit being poured out after His death, but again this is not talking about tongues. I am of the mind that the disciples were given special advantages by being that close to Him. I believe they very likely had been given the spirit before the others were. Thus the breathing and saying receive ye the spirit. IMO

Truthseeker · #**259** 05-28-2010, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Ok. He is talking about the spirit or "living water" that is given to everyone that believes in Him...not tongues. If it was a forshadowing it was a forshadowing of his spirit being poured out after His death, but again this is not talking about tongues. I am of the mind that the disciples were given special advantages by being that close to Him. I believe they very likely had been given the spirit before the others were. Thus the breathing and saying receive ye the spirit. IMO

It clearly teaches Holy Ghost was not given for he was not yet glorified. No fixing to say otherwise. I know it doesn't say tongues but to claim the holy ghost was given pre-cross is without scriptural merit in light of what Jesus said.

Sam · #**260** 05-28-2010, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

It clearly teaches Holy Ghost was not given for he was not yet glorified. No fixing to say otherwise. I know it doesn't say tongues but to claim the holy ghost was given pre-cross is without scriptural merit in light of what Jesus said.

The appearance of Jesus in the upper room when He breathed on His disciples and said, "Receive ye the Holy Ghost," was post resurrection.

Earlier that day He had told Mary Magdalene not to touch Him (John 20:11-18) because He had not yet ascended to the Father. Then later the same day (John 20:19-23) He appeared to some disciples, showed them His hands and pierced side and breathed His Spirit into them.

This evening on resurrection day is considered by some Apostolics to be the "dispensational" or "new covenant" birth of the Church by the Spirit since the testator had died, risen from the dead, and presented His blood at the Heavenly Holy of Holies. Then Pentecost 50 days later is considered the baptism or empowering of the church by the Holy Spirit as the "promise of the Father" was poured out. Easter night was the inbreathing or birthing of the Spirit and Pentecost was the pouring out or empowering of the Spirit. In other words, the disciples of Jesus were saved during the ministry of Jesus under Old Covenant terms prior to Easter but were now saved under New Covenant terms after the death, burial, and resurrection.

There are differences of opinion among Apostolics on this. Some think that the disciples of Jesus were not saved or born of the Spirit prior to the Day of Pentecost in Acts chapter 2, that the breathing on in John 12 was a promise or symbol of what would happen 50 days later.