How do I leave

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

"without believing it"

Can you be specific? Are you talking about the cross? The Pentecostal version of experiencing Acts 2? What?

Hmm, let's see. Lots has changed since I left too so...back then, I guess I didn't believe that standards were salvational.

But you knew me back then. You watched the whole thing.

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by CC1

LOL!!! You are probably one of the few who gets it. I put the "dry" in dry sense of humor.

It's probably because I tend to be the same, LOL

Originally Posted by ILG

Good quote.

You look pretty smart in your new avatar Mich!

Thanks. I recently ditched the glasses, so I have to take a new one soon!

[GraceAmazing]

Originally Posted by BeenThinkin

OEFM... it ain't easy, but you can do it! Get away! Don't do it a little at a time! Make the break. Pray, make up your mind and pray some more. And the thing that helped me as much as anything was when I made up my mind to simply open the Bible and let it say what it says. Don't read it from the prospect of it backing up your religion, denomination or for an argument. You don't have a religion. You have a God!

The problem with talking to "this one" and to "that one" is that "this one" is going to tell you like "this one" believes it and "that one" is going to tell you like "that one" believes it. And then if you talk to your Pentecostal family they are going to put a guilt trip on you and tell it like you know they believe it. Some times we have to work out our own salvation with "fear and trembling." Since 1980 I have not had the first falling out nor argument with any of my family and I have several that are still UPC. (I just don't discuss it with family!) Maintain your integrity and that doesn't mean telling someone off because they don't see it like you do!

When you've made up your mind, again, don't discuss it with your family. Let them know you love them but that for now you're not going to argue about religion. ......2Ti 2:15* Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

One of the problems is that there are more different Pentecostals than you can shake a stick at. Even in the UPC you can find a mixture of different beliefs, standards, doctrines and ideas. That was one of the things that caused me to leave the UPC in 1980. Every church you went to in the district was operating by a different set of rules it seemed. (Yes, I just painted with a broad brush, but the rules were surely many). It just seemed to me that if we were all operating from the same book, (be it Bible or Manual) it might ought to be more similiar than it was, more the same.

Don't get bitter. And discussions with family and friends at this time can bring about bitterness. And another thing that I would encourage you to do is always keep in mind that you could be wrong about something. Don't develop the idea that you know it all and have it all figured out. I'm still figuring out some things and have come to a better understanding for some of the things that I believe by reading on this forum. My feelings were that I didn't want to just make a change to be making a change, nor did I want to go from one error to another error.

Pray and read! Don't read for argument sake. Read for understanding! Keep an open mind! Pray and read! Don't look for me to give you the answer nor anyone else on AFF. If you start collecting doctrine from AFF you're gonna be a messed up dude! There is enough variety (and maybe nuts...Timmy! just kidding Timmy) on this here forum to drive you nuts! (including me!)

I am praying for you and hope that these few words will help you. Love you in Christ! Hope this makes sense!

Been Thinkin

Terrific post! It even helped me and I left the UPC almost two years ago!!!! Wowzers!

I like the part about don't get bitter. I get tired of the anti-UPC tirades...

[mfblume]

Anyone intent on leaving a congregation, I would recommend the book A TALE OF THREE KINGS, since there is pretty much a guarantee things will be sent one's way that will be from those who are unintentionally desiring one to get bitter.

The book is by Gene Edwards, and involves David's ordeal under Saul and then David's ordeal over Absalom. David ended up having to leave Saul's kingdom, like leaving a church where dictatorship occurs. But David did not gather as many around him to leave with him as he could. He left alone and took no one with him. When he had the chance to hurt Saul, as we are tempted to "get back" at a church by telling everyone we can about how awful "they are", David smote himself when he merely cut a piece of Saul's robe as proof he could have killed Saul.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Anyone intent on leaving a congregation, I would recommend the book A TALE OF THREE KINGS, since there is pretty much a guarantee things will be sent one's way that will be from those who are unintentionally desiring one to get bitter.

The book is by Gene Edwards, and involves David's ordeal under Saul and then David's ordeal over Absalom. David ended up having to leave Saul's kingdom, like leaving a church where dictatorship occurs. But David did not gather as many around him to leave with him as he could. He left alone and took no one with him. When he had the chance to hurt Saul, as we are tempted to "get back" at a church by telling everyone we can about how awful "they are", David smote himself when he merely cut a piece of Saul's robe as proof he could have killed Saul.

Great advice and great book. I read it when I was considering leaving. Leaving is not wrong, but how you do it might be.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Anyone intent on leaving a congregation, I would recommend the book A TALE OF THREE KINGS, since there is pretty much a guarantee things will be sent one's way that will be from those who are unintentionally desiring one to get bitter.

The book is by Gene Edwards, and involves David's ordeal under Saul and then David's ordeal over Absalom. David ended up having to leave Saul's kingdom, like leaving a church where dictatorship occurs. But David did not gather as many around him to leave with him as he could. He left alone and took no one with him. When he had the chance to hurt Saul, as we are tempted to "get back" at a church by telling everyone we can about how awful "they are", David smote himself when he merely cut a piece of Saul's robe as proof he could have killed Saul.

Awesome book, one of my first reads when I started attending a UPC

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by ILG

Hmm, let's see. Lots has changed since I left too so...back then, I guess I didn't believe that standards were salvational.

But you knew me back then. You watched the whole thing.

Yeah, I don't mean to play dumb... I do think for the benefit of those who just read here they may need to know some things.

I'll leave your story alone. I wish God's very best for you and where you are now.


Some strive hard to get away from things they themselves promoted and taught. That in it'self brings a new dimension to this discussion, and I think, a greater responsibility to those they wrongly influenced. Many were not simply victims, but also perpetrators.

Not all who attend a UPC are radical separitists in doctrine and lifestyle.

I'll use myself as an example...

I attend a UPC and do not believe they are the "only ones" who love the Lord and are His children.

I reject any notion that keeping a unique dress standard is salvational or that our works propel us into a position of favor with God.

My family and I are not withdrawn from our community nor the churches and Christians within our community. As much as possible we celebrate the differences and uniqueness of other Christian denominations.

Are there those in the UPC who disagree with the above?

Yes indeed. But, I think it's noteworthy that very often those who "leave" were, at one time, ultracon in their separation, worship style, and sectarianism.

I tend to believe a more balanced approach is better whether one is coming into or leaving the UPC or any other denomination.

[Praxeas]

Amen Hoovie

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Yeah, I don't mean to play dumb... I do think for the benefit of those who just read here they may need to know some things.

I'll leave your story alone. I wish God's very best for you and where you are now.


Some strive hard to get away from things they themselves promoted and taught. That in it'self brings a new dimension to this discussion, and I think, a greater responsibility to those they wrongly influenced. Many were not simply victims, but also perpetrators.

Not all who attend a UPC are radical separitists in doctrine of lifestyle.

I'll use myself as an example...

I attend a UPC and do not believe they are the "only ones" who love the Lord and are His children.

I reject any notion that keeping a unique dress standard is salvational or that our works propel us into a position of favor with God.

My family and I are not withdrawn from our community nor the churches and Christians within our community. As much as possible we celebrate the differences and uniqueness of other Christian denominations.

Are there those in the UPC who disagree with the above?

Yes indeed. But, I think it's noteworthy that very often those who "leave" were, at one time, ultracon in their separation, worship style, and sectarianism.

I tend to believe a more balanced approach is better whether one is coming into or leaving the UPC or any other denomination.

Good points.

Myself... much of the resistance I feel right now (inside myself) is against the extremists in our movement.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Yeah, I don't mean to play dumb... I do think for the benefit of those who just read here they may need to know some things.

I'll leave your story alone. I wish God's very best for you and where you are now.


Some strive hard to get away from things they themselves promoted and taught. That in it'self brings a new dimension to this discussion, and I think, a greater responsibility to those they wrongly influenced. Many were not simply victims, but also perpetrators.

Not all who attend a UPC are radical separitists in doctrine and lifestyle.

I'll use myself as an example...

I attend a UPC and do not believe they are the "only ones" who love the Lord and are His children.

I reject any notion that keeping a unique dress standard is salvational or that our works propel us into a position of favor with God.

My family and I are not withdrawn from our community nor the churches and Christians within our community. As much as possible we celebrate the differences and uniqueness of other Christian denominations.

Are there those in the UPC who disagree with the above?

Yes indeed. But, I think it's noteworthy that very often those who "leave" were, at one time, ultracon in their separation, worship style, and sectarianism.

I tend to believe a more balanced approach is better whether one is coming into or leaving the UPC or any other denomination.

I completely agree.

I did perpetrate what I was once taught. Unfortunately, I was once taught it though and didn't know any better. Once I knew better, I did what I could to make it right.

If I had been taught what you believe from the get-go, perhaps I would still be UPC and would not have been wounded as drastically nor felt the need to separate myself from what I experienced.

I respect you for having a balanced view.

You also left something at one point in your life. Had you been more balanced then, you would have no doubt made different choices. But, I do not blame you for your choice. I don't know if it was a choice made in rebellion or simple confusion or a lust for "the world". Laregly, I simply know you are living the best choice you can at present and I don't feel a need to judge it. I hope you can grant me the same.

I do see the difference between those who are more balanced in their approach to oneness doctrines and those who are extreme conservatives. I am not bitter, but I resent what I was taught and you can't blame me.