Are these going to be saved?

[POWERUP]

Loose as a Goose!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cruise-a-mactics!!!!!!!!!!!!! Slippery Slope!!!!!!!!!!!! Rev. I
respect your convictions and all...................But to lean toward the idea that it
don't happen in Conserative Churches as much as Liberial churches. Come on Bro.

I don't have to defend the way I believe now...........But,I want you to notice that
Beautiful young ladie to the left of your screen.

Thats my daughter!!! Great kid. Don't look Apostolic does she? She has led more people
to Christ(and seen them filled with the Holy Ghost) than a lot of adults I know!!!

Yep, those that kept all the outward standards, did every little thing the Pastor said.

But, has never won a single person to the lord in 30 yrs. of being saved!!!!

I believe if you want a standard. It needs to be, You Must Lead People to Christ!!!!!

I have seen my daughter pray for different ones, with different kinds of Spirits, by just
gently wrapping her arms around them and praying for God to just be God.

And he always shows up. Not in a weird way either. You know what i mean......shaking,
moaning, groaning, let go, turn loose, you get the picture.

[POWERUP]

I just don't get it, when people say your backsliding cause you dont follow traditional
standards.

O wELL

[Aquila]

Often those who are wrapped up in legalistic churches find their focus on obeying the standards for the pastor's approval. It's a sad form of spiritual bondage that dries the soul and ultimately alienates from Christ.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Sherri

We do teach against homosexuality, but we also love the ones who come. They are not allowed to minister in any way in our church, and can't sign membership papers, because the paper says that they agree with our statement of faith - and it definitely says we believe marriage is between one woman and one man. That is discussed in our first membership class.

However, we don't treat them any differently than we treat couples who come and are "shacking up" without marriage. Eddie preaches against that too, but they continue to come and usually end up married. At any given time, we will have 4 or 5 couples attending that we know are living in sin. They also are welcome to attend, but they can't be involved as long as they are in willful sin.

Sin is sin, no matter what it is.

Originally Posted by Sherri

No, the ultimate goal would be for homosexual people to serve God and live a celebate lifestyle. I've seen it happen. Some will not turn to heterosexual feelings (EVER), but they can live an overcoming lifestyle by not giving in to sinful desires. Just as a single person who struggles with heterosexual lust has to learn to live an overcoming life before God.

Originally Posted by Sherri

I'm not sure what you mean by "loose" churches, but you would probably put us in that category.

Yes, there is sin that goes on among our people. But there is sin that goes on down the road at the conservative Pentecostal churches too. I've known several of those pastors who ended up in adultery. I've know several pastor's kids who ended up pregnant in their teens. I think you're wrong in saying it's more prevalent in one church than in another. People are people no matter where they are.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Very good post Sam. I believe that believers who struggle with this are “saved” by grace. Their sin is no worse than the sin I struggle with. I know that some may continue on in the lifestyle, I believe God will deal with them as he chooses… and I trust him. I’d never run anyone out of a church or a bible study over this. I’d share the Word of God with them and talk about the healing and changing power of Jesus. Some who are in bondage to this condition need much mercy and prayer. I firmly believe that they can’t change by sheer will power. I believe they need a supernatural touch from Jesus.

I believe that sin is like a disease that we have all contracted. There are times when the infection lies dormant and the condition is asymptomatic. But then there are periods of time when the symptoms of this condition flare up and are obvious for all to see. Our churches are spiritual hospitals. We need to minister to all who desire to know more about Jesus.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Often those who are wrapped up in legalistic churches find their focus on obeying the standards for the pastor's approval. It's a sad form of spiritual bondage that dries the soul and ultimately alienates from Christ.

Sherri has the same opinion that I do. Aquila...this is so true. I do not believe in categorizing churches as "loose" because of a dress standard difference of opinion.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

I think a better thread question would be whether anyone can be saved because we are all sinners ...hummmmmm

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by RevvKe

As I am sure most know JCM was plaqued with homosexuality problems, and their were alot who slid down the slippery slope and now are very far from any resemblence to being Apostolic Pentecostals. I see some seem to support these kinds of things but would like some clarification.

I hope that no here thinks that homosexuals will go to Heaven while continuing in this abomination of a lifestyle.

I believe you must treat everyone right, however, there is a spirit that is associated with this lifestyle. I have personally witnessed a backslidden lesbian girl seduce four young ladies out of the church and into that world. Our pastor thought if he just loved her enough and was kind enough to her that he could win her back. He never taught or preached against homosexuality and lesbianism and the lesbian felt comfortable in the church.

We must teach and preach the truth to these people, and in a way where sin is not comfortable.

I am a moderate Apostolic Pentecostal pastor, and although I am not an extemist I still believe in holiness dress distinctives. I watch my home church destroyed because our pastor let down on these principles. It is a slippery slope, first it was separation from the world in activities, then dress standards, and then adultery came in, baptism was no longer necessary, then neither was the Holy Ghost, and now he is a ear ring wearing trinitarian.

He damaged a good and healthy church, but it started in small increments. He was writing a book on why holiness didn't matter while at the same time he was having an affair. Then he wanted people to believe that God had given him the revelation of being delivered from bondage of holiness.

No one fights the holiness message harder or more violently than those who once embraced it. It is a slippery slope, and just so you know I don't preach against beards, or colored shirts, or straight skirts, or short sleeves, or wedding rings, etc. Holiness is based on principles, and tradition I realize that, but these things are a hedge or a fence of protection, tear them down and any unclean thing can come into your house.

Just for the record, as a 1978 graduate of JCM...the number of homosexuals was in the minority. And not every church that chooses a different dress standard has sin in the camp.

Also, 'Holiness' is the mind and character of God and there is no red letters in my Bible addressing anything but inward conditions of the heart. Paul's statements in Corinthians are open for interpretation and in the Greek and Hebrew are not addressed as you seem to think.

Why can't you just pray for people who use make-up instead of condemn them. Some women are truly beautiful without it and some need to paint the barn...LOL. Regardless - it is up to the individual to "work out their own salvation with fear and trembling."

Blessings, Rhoni

[nahkoe]

Originally Posted by Sam

Some alcoholics may struggle their whole life to live free from alcohol and may fall back occasionally for a while, and then get sober and go on again. I think the same thing may happen to a person who is homosexual. There is a life time struggle and there may be periods of relapse and subsequent recovery. Some times we are not very patient with people in their struggle.

And some may be dramatically delivered in an instant.

I really wish I understood why. I really wish there were more people interested in ministering to those who come into the church from the world. I'm extremely grateful for those who are interested in getting their hands (and knees!) dirty when it's called for.

This is what I know. I was bisexual for as long as I can remember. I did live the lifestyle for awhile, and openly identified as bi for even longer than that. When someone laid hands on me (for another reason completely) and demons left, something changed in me. It took a few days for me to realize that I'm no longer attracted to women. I'm just not. And cigarettes taste awful too. lol I have no idea how connected these things really are, but for me, that deliverance was dramatic and instant.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by nahkoe

And some may be dramatically delivered in an instant.

I really wish I understood why. I really wish there were more people interested in ministering to those who come into the church from the world. I'm extremely grateful for those who are interested in getting their hands (and knees!) dirty when it's called for.

This is what I know. I was bisexual for as long as I can remember. I did live the lifestyle for awhile, and openly identified as bi for even longer than that. When someone laid hands on me (for another reason completely) and demons left, something changed in me. It took a few days for me to realize that I'm no longer attracted to women. I'm just not. And cigarettes taste awful too. lol I have no idea how connected these things really are, but for me, that deliverance was dramatic and instant.

Nakoe,

Thank you for sharing your testimony of deliverance with us. It is wonderful to know that God can and does deliver people with sexual addictions, no matter of what type.

The research bears out that many who claim to be homosexual, or bi-sexual have been abused physically or sexually in their youth. People you know and trust who molest you when you are younger and vulnerable take away something that only God can restore.

Those who are molested by a same sex person struggle with sexual identity issues. For example; when you are molested during the 'latency period' ages birth through about 6-7 become hyper-sexualized. They struggle with enjoying the feelings of sexuality and linking that enjoyment of the feeling with the fact the molester was same sex and think they are homosexual. Another thing is that when it is a person you trust as in : parent, friend of the family, or church leadership - it skews your thinking about God, what is wrong or right, ect.

Those who struggle with homosexuality, like those who struggle with adultery, fornication of any type of sexual addiction struggle their whole lives unless God miraculously delivers them as was Nakoe. But this healing, just like physical healing, doesn't always happen and continued support from a sponsor, accountability person, or a counselor helps the person stay celibate. Just like any other addiction, many times one 'falls off the wagon' and needs God's grace and mercy one more time. Thank God for his power that lives in us that helps us overcome!

Blessings, Rhoni

[nahkoe]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

The research bears out that many who claim to be homosexual, or bi-sexual have been abused physically or sexually in their youth.

Many, but not all. That's a pretty broad brush to paint with.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by nahkoe

Many, but not all. That's a pretty broad brush to paint with.

I said MANY...the actual statistic is greater than 90%. Were you molested? Abused in any way?