Are these going to be saved?

[RevvKe]

Just for clarification, is there anyone here who believes that homosexuals and lesbians are going to be saved if they continue to live that lifestyle?

Gays and lesbians know deep down inside that their lifestyles are wrong, they don't even need to word of God to tell them that. They are constantly wanting approval from everyone else.

You can love them and should do so, but you must preach and teach to the congregation that is an abomination and it will send their souls to hell.

Another thing to ponder, there is a spirit that is associated with homosexuals and I have seen four young ladies seduced and led astray from the church because the pastor didn't address these issues due to pressure from the just love them crowd.

JMHO, that and a dollar still won't buy a tank of gas. I am a moderate Apostolic Pentecostal pastor and I can assure you I will preach and teach against homosexuality whenever and where ever it is neccesary. I had two men visit me recently, thought they could bring their talent to the church and still live as homosexuals. They didn't stick around, because sin must feel uncomfortable. We were nice and treated them right, but it was clear that homosexual lifestyle is not acceptable in the house of the Lord.

I still believe and teach holiness lifestyle, I do believe that that that have kicked holiness to the curb are on a slippery slope, I have never seen it just stay with just a dress code. My pastor kicked the dress code to the curb, took the church out of the UPC and then adultery crept in, next it was baptism and finally he is no longer oneness. Compromise comes in small increments. He is backslidden now and is lost unless he repents and finds his way back to the truth.

I teach principles of holiness, I don't teach against beards, short sleeves, or straight skirts, I do teach against the cutting of hair on women, slits past knees in skirts, men should have short hair, no wearing of shorts on either sex, and that sleeves shouldn't show your armpits if your arms are lifted. I don't teach against a wedding ring or engagement ring, and I still teach that we need to be modest even in our apparell. Colored shirts fine too! lol

[RevvKe]

As I am sure most know JCM was plaqued with homosexuality problems, and their were alot who slid down the slippery slope and now are very far from any resemblence to being Apostolic Pentecostals. I see some seem to support these kinds of things but would like some clarification.

I hope that no here thinks that homosexuals will go to Heaven while continuing in this abomination of a lifestyle.

I believe you must treat everyone right, however, there is a spirit that is associated with this lifestyle. I have personally witnessed a backslidden lesbian girl seduce four young ladies out of the church and into that world. Our pastor thought if he just loved her enough and was kind enough to her that he could win her back. He never taught or preached against homosexuality and lesbianism and the lesbian felt comfortable in the church.

We must teach and preach the truth to these people, and in a way where sin is not comfortable.

I am a moderate Apostolic Pentecostal pastor, and although I am not an extemist I still believe in holiness dress distinctives. I watch my home church destroyed because our pastor let down on these principles. It is a slippery slope, first it was separation from the world in activities, then dress standards, and then adultery came in, baptism was no longer necessary, then neither was the Holy Ghost, and now he is a ear ring wearing trinitarian.

He damaged a good and healthy church, but it started in small increments. He was writing a book on why holiness didn't matter while at the same time he was having an affair. Then he wanted people to believe that God had given him the revelation of being delivered from bondage of holiness.

No one fights the holiness message harder or more violently than those who once embraced it. It is a slippery slope, and just so you know I don't preach against beards, or colored shirts, or straight skirts, or short sleeves, or wedding rings, etc. Holiness is based on principles, and tradition I realize that, but these things are a hedge or a fence of protection, tear them down and any unclean thing can come into your house.

[Sherri]

We do teach against homosexuality, but we also love the ones who come. They are not allowed to minister in any way in our church, and can't sign membership papers, because the paper says that they agree with our statement of faith - and it definitely says we believe marriage is between one woman and one man. That is discussed in our first membership class.

However, we don't treat them any differently than we treat couples who come and are "shacking up" without marriage. Eddie preaches against that too, but they continue to come and usually end up married. At any given time, we will have 4 or 5 couples attending that we know are living in sin. They also are welcome to attend, but they can't be involved as long as they are in willful sin.

Sin is sin, no matter what it is.

[RevvKe]

Originally Posted by Sherri

We do teach against homosexuality, but we also love the ones who come. They are not allowed to minister in any way in our church, and can't sign membership papers, because the paper says that they agree with our statement of faith - and it definitely says we believe marriage is between one woman and one man. That is discussed in our first membership class.

However, we don't treat them any differently than we treat couples who come and are "shacking up" without marriage. Eddie preaches against that too, but they continue to come and usually end up married. At any given time, we will have 4 or 5 couples attending that we know are living in sin. They also are welcome to attend, but they can't be involved as long as they are in willful sin.

Sin is sin, no matter what it is.

I hope you aren't talking about the homosexuals. LOL

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by RevvKe

...

I still believe and teach holiness lifestyle, I do believe that that that have kicked holiness to the curb are on a slippery slope, I have never seen it just stay with just a dress code. My pastor kicked the dress code to the curb, took the church out of the UPC and then adultery crept in, next it was baptism and finally he is no longer oneness. Compromise comes in small increments. He is backslidden now and is lost unless he repents and finds his way back to the truth.

I teach principles of holiness, I don't teach against beards, short sleeves, or straight skirts, I do teach against the cutting of hair on women, slits past knees in skirts, men should have short hair, no wearing of shorts on either sex, and that sleeves shouldn't show your armpits if your arms are lifted. I don't teach against a wedding ring or engagement ring, and I still teach that we need to be modest even in our apparell. Colored shirts fine too! lol

I myself was "kicked to the curb" in an "ultra-con" holiness church because adultery had crept in and I wouldn't play along. Go figure.

From what I have witnessed elsewhere, adultry, divorce, homosexuality, teen pregnancy and pedophilia occur in "Holiness" churches at rates that mirror the general population. Go figure.

I admire your stand and convictions. I just haven't seen your other observations play out in the "Holiness" community at large.

[RevvKe]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I myself was "kicked to the curb" in an "ultra-con" holiness church because adultery had crept in and I wouldn't play along. Go figure.

From what I have witnessed elsewhere, adultry, divorce, homosexuality, teen pregnancy and pedophilia occur in "Holiness" churches at rates that mirror the general population. Go figure.

I admire your stand and convictions. I just haven't seen your other observations play out in the "Holiness" community at large.

Although sin can come into any heart, it is more prevelant in loose churches. I had another pastor who did the same when I was a kid, and today it is rampant with blatant sin and they have homosexuals on the platform in the music dept. and even as lay ministers. It is a slippery slope, I have two personal examples and a host of others from colleagues.

I believe the Holy Ghost should be allowed to lead and guide, but remember if the Holy Ghost was all that was needed then all pastors need to resign. God chose the foolishness of preaching, it takes the Holy Ghost, but also one needs to have the word of God taught to them. We need principles of holiness/separation and tradition they are hedges of protection.

[KWSS1976]

Well here is my rub...How come God will give those people with the Holyghost "with the evidence..I mean God gives his spirit to someone living in sin...I know for a fact that some churches want let you be on the platform or music or anything unless you have been filled with the holyghost with he "evidence....

[Sherri]

Originally Posted by RevvKe

I hope you aren't talking about the homosexuals. LOL

No, the ultimate goal would be for homosexual people to serve God and live a celebate lifestyle. I've seen it happen. Some will not turn to heterosexual feelings (EVER), but they can live an overcoming lifestyle by not giving in to sinful desires. Just as a single person who struggles with heterosexual lust has to learn to live an overcoming life before God.

[Sherri]

Originally Posted by RevvKe

Although sin can come into any heart, it is more prevelant in loose churches. I had another pastor who did the same when I was a kid, and today it is rampant with blatant sin and they have homosexuals on the platform in the music dept. and even as lay ministers. It is a slippery slope, I have two personal examples and a host of others from colleagues.

I believe the Holy Ghost should be allowed to lead and guide, but remember if the Holy Ghost was all that was needed then all pastors need to resign. God chose the foolishness of preaching, it takes the Holy Ghost, but also one needs to have the word of God taught to them. We need principles of holiness/separation and tradition they are hedges of protection.

I'm not sure what you mean by "loose" churches, but you would probably put us in that category.

Yes, there is sin that goes on among our people. But there is sin that goes on down the road at the conservative Pentecostal churches too. I've known several of those pastors who ended up in adultery. I've know several pastor's kids who ended up pregnant in their teens. I think you're wrong in saying it's more prevalent in one church than in another. People are people no matter where they are.

[KWSS1976]

Sin is in all churches....They just try to hide it......lol