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02-04-2010, 03:35 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,178
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Oneness people aren't saved?
Interesting blog with provoking discussion. The post needs some Oneness representatives so jump in!
Though the topic isn't Oneness per se (but rather is heresy is "damnable" in terms of affecting one's salvation or not), but it's creating that argument.
http://nearemmaus.wordpress.com/2010...resy-salvific/
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02-04-2010, 03:52 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: Oneness people aren't saved?
yeah... we could have a few hard core AFFers tell em they are on the way to hell - not to mention all the others they are discussing.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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02-04-2010, 04:56 PM
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Freedom@apostolicidentity .com
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,597
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Re: Oneness people aren't saved?
Brian is a brilliant mind. If memory serves he beat out my Lady Cass as class valedictorian! But I will take my salutatorian over him any day!
He has got too much facial hair for me anyway.
__________________
VISIT US @ WWW.THE316.COM
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02-04-2010, 05:15 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,178
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Re: Oneness people aren't saved?
Good call, Dan! Facial hair tickles
Brian -- great guy. Though he's gone the way of not just seeing Christology through the lens of diversity, but outright rejecting his Oneness roots.
But yes, he has a brilliant mind. The conversation on the comment thread there is blowing up.
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02-04-2010, 05:44 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,178
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Re: Oneness people aren't saved?
Quote:
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Trinitarians and Oneness believers have certain things in common like a belief in the full deity of Jesus and the full humanity of Jesus, yes. We both believe that Jesus is one Person, yes. But when we unpack this stuff we see just how drastically different these seeming commonalities are. Trinitarians believe that Jesus is one person: the Son. We believe that he’s the Son in relation to the Father and the Holy Spirit and that he’s been such from all eternity. We believe that from the time of the Incarnation he has possessed two natures fully: deity & humanity. I believe that this understanding of Jesus is supported by Scripture. Oneness believers believe that Jesus is one person with two natures as well, but they see these two natures as the Father/deity and the Son/humanity. The Son has not been the Son from all eternity but became the Son in the Incarnation with the addition of humanity. The Son is the Son in relation to the Father but this relation is neither personal since the Father and the Son are the selfsame person, i.e., Jesus, nor is it eternal since the Son only became the Son in the Incarnation. This is an understanding of Jesus that I don’t believe is supported by Scripture.
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The gloves are off.
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02-04-2010, 05:51 PM
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Jesus' Name Pentecostal
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: near Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 17,805
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Re: Oneness people aren't saved?
Quote:
Trinitarians and Oneness believers have certain things in common like a belief in the full deity of Jesus and the full humanity of Jesus, yes. We both believe that Jesus is one Person, yes. But when we unpack this stuff we see just how drastically different these seeming commonalities are. Trinitarians believe that Jesus is one person: the Son. We believe that he’s the Son in relation to the Father and the Holy Spirit and that he’s been such from all eternity. We believe that from the time of the Incarnation he has possessed two natures fully: deity & humanity. I believe that this understanding of Jesus is supported by Scripture. Oneness believers believe that Jesus is one person with two natures as well, but they see these two natures as the Father/deity and the Son/humanity. The Son has not been the Son from all eternity but became the Son in the Incarnation with the addition of humanity. The Son is the Son in relation to the Father but this relation is neither personal since the Father and the Son are the selfsame person, i.e., Jesus, nor is it eternal since the Son only became the Son in the Incarnation. This is an understanding of Jesus that I don’t believe is supported by Scripture.
The Son is only the humanity?
That's all there is to the Son of God?
Just a human?
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02-04-2010, 06:19 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,791
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Re: Oneness people aren't saved?
I always wonder why the only solution people see is either Oneness or Trinity? Trinitarians are apt to talk about Oneness shortcomings but ignore the many short comings of Trinitarianism
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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02-04-2010, 06:25 PM
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Jesus' Name Pentecostal
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: near Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 17,805
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Re: Oneness people aren't saved?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
I always wonder why the only solution people see is either Oneness or Trinity? Trinitarians are apt to talk about Oneness shortcomings but ignore the many short comings of Trinitarianism
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There is no single oneness doctrine just as there is no single trinitarian doctrine. Most of us just believe that God is three and that He is one and we don't try to get too deeply involved in explaining it or fighting about it.
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02-04-2010, 06:31 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,791
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Re: Oneness people aren't saved?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
There is no single oneness doctrine just as there is no single trinitarian doctrine. Most of us just believe that God is three and that He is one and we don't try to get too deeply involved in explaining it or fighting about it.
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There are and were so many other doctrines
Unitarian is still alive and well
Arianism was a doctrine way back and still alive, but not well in the JWs
What about binatarianism?
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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02-04-2010, 07:25 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: In His Hands
Posts: 13,918
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Re: Oneness people aren't saved?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
Quote:
Trinitarians and Oneness believers have certain things in common like a belief in the full deity of Jesus and the full humanity of Jesus, yes. We both believe that Jesus is one Person, yes. But when we unpack this stuff we see just how drastically different these seeming commonalities are. Trinitarians believe that Jesus is one person: the Son. We believe that he’s the Son in relation to the Father and the Holy Spirit and that he’s been such from all eternity. We believe that from the time of the Incarnation he has possessed two natures fully: deity & humanity. I believe that this understanding of Jesus is supported by Scripture. Oneness believers believe that Jesus is one person with two natures as well, but they see these two natures as the Father/deity and the Son/humanity. The Son has not been the Son from all eternity but became the Son in the Incarnation with the addition of humanity. The Son is the Son in relation to the Father but this relation is neither personal since the Father and the Son are the selfsame person, i.e., Jesus, nor is it eternal since the Son only became the Son in the Incarnation. This is an understanding of Jesus that I don’t believe is supported by Scripture.
The Son is only the humanity?
That's all there is to the Son of God?
Just a human?
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Sam,
This guy describes EXACTLY the teaching I was raised with growing up in the WOTCCC and, as an adult, in the UPCI.
He didn't say anything out place.
I almost think he has a valid point, except that his thinking would lead me to believe that he is almost a "Tri-theist".
__________________
"The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character."
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