The Doctrine of The Incarnation

[BeenThinkin]

Originally Posted by Sam

no one saw God as the invisible Spirit who fills all time and space
but
they saw Him in His visible form by which He revealed Himself

No man has seen God. What have we seen? The "SON OF GOD!" Why do we have a hard time saying that Jesus was "The Son of God." If we make Him God, the Eternal Almighty God, then for 33 yrs God was not omnipresent.

We know that Jesus and His Father were one. But how? Not to the point of making the flesh God. That won't work. God is a spirit. Then how can we say that the fleshly man, Jesus, was God? He was the Son of God. Not the second person in the trinity, but the Son of God! Am I repeating myself?

“6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.”
1 Corinthians 8:6, KJV.

This has to be a reference of two entities. ..... 2 Gods? ... No! No! It's God and His Son. And they are one .... “21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.” John 17:21, KJV. This oneness even includes us.

He is one with the Father but that does not make Him God no more than us being one with the Father makes us God.

BeenThinkin .... A lot!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Php 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
Php 2:7 but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
Php 2:8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Not at all. Jesus was not just God. Jesus was God and Man. What they saw was the invisible God revealed through the human nature. When you see Jesus you saw the visible representation, not the invisible Spirit. Jesus was both that invisible omnipresent Spirit AND that visible human being

BUMP

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by BeenThinkin

No man has seen God. What have we seen? The "SON OF GOD!" Why do we have a hard time saying that Jesus was "The Son of God." If we make Him God, the Eternal Almighty God, then for 33 yrs God was not omnipresent.

We know that Jesus and His Father were one. But how? Not to the point of making the flesh God. That won't work. God is a spirit. Then how can we say that the fleshly man, Jesus, was God? He was the Son of God. Not the second person in the trinity, but the Son of God! Am I repeating myself?

“6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.”
1 Corinthians 8:6, KJV.

This has to be a reference of two entities. ..... 2 Gods? ... No! No! It's God and His Son. And they are one .... “21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.” John 17:21, KJV. This oneness even includes us.

He is one with the Father but that does not make Him God no more than us being one with the Father makes us God.

BeenThinkin .... A lot!

I don't know about you but I never had a hard time saying jesus is the Son of God. I saw the the bible says he is. He is the Son of God. He is also the Son of Man.

BTW if you are questioning whether He is God, there is already a thread on that

[BeenThinkin]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

BUMP

So you've got two Gods. The visible God, Jesus, and the invisible God inside that you can't see.

Again, if you say Jesus is God, then the scripture is wrong that says no man hath seen God at anytime.

BT

[BeenThinkin]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I don't know about you but I never had a hard time saying jesus is the Son of God. I saw the the bible says he is. He is the Son of God. He is also the Son of Man.

BTW if you are questioning whether He is God, there is already a thread on that

Of course, I'm questioning that, too. How can you discuss the doctrine of incarnation without questioning Jesus being God.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by BeenThinkin

So you've got two Gods.

No

The visible God, Jesus, and the invisible God inside that you can't see.

No, The invisible God and HIS visible manifestation. One Person, One Divine nature. One Human nature

Again, if you say Jesus is God, then the scripture is wrong that says no man hath seen God at anytime.

Again, Jesus is God AND Man. That means He has a DIVINE nature and a HUMAN nature and what they saw was a Person with a Human nature. They did not see His invisible Spirit. God in His Deity remains unseen.

In all these discussions I always get the feeling that the other party isn't really interested in grasping the concepts put forth, but are simply interested in disagreeing

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by BeenThinkin

Of course, I'm questioning that, too. How can you have a doctrine of incarnation without questioning Jesus being God.

And as I said, there is a thread already ON that subject you might enjoy

[Sam]

Originally Posted by BeenThinkin

1 No man has seen God. What have we seen? The "SON OF GOD!" Why do we have a hard time saying that Jesus was "The Son of God." If we make Him God, the Eternal Almighty God, then for 33 yrs God was not omnipresent.

2 We know that Jesus and His Father were one. But how? Not to the point of making the flesh God. That won't work. God is a spirit. Then how can we say that the fleshly man, Jesus, was God? He was the Son of God. Not the second person in the trinity, but the Son of God! Am I repeating myself?
...

1 God did not cease to be omnipresent when He was revealed or manifested in His Son/Word. All of God would not have fit within that human frame. While Jesus was talking to Nicodemus, He said that He was also in heaven. This must have been in reference to His deity because His humanity was right there face to face with Nicodemus (John 3:13)

2 Our English word "one" can mean a single unit or it can mean united. Deity and humanity in Christ were separate from one another but united in Him.

We believe God to be three and we believe Him to be one. We have a problem when we try to define three "whats" and one "what". Some are comfortable saying three "persons," others use terms like three "personas" or three "modes of being" or three "offices" and it can go on and on.

I personally believe there is one God and He revealed Himself in the person of Jesus Christ. I also believe that that one God lives in me as the Holy Spirit or as Christ in me. I don't try to understand it, and I certainly am not smart enough to argue about it.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by BeenThinkin

So you've got two Gods. The visible God, Jesus, and the invisible God inside that you can't see.

Again, if you say Jesus is God, then the scripture is wrong that says no man hath seen God at anytime.

BT

BTW you didn't address anything I posted. You ignored my arguments and the scripture.

[BeenThinkin]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

No


No, The invisible God and HIS visible manifestation. One Person, One Divine nature. One Human nature


Again, Jesus is God AND Man. That means He has a DIVINE nature and a HUMAN nature and what they saw was a Person with a Human nature. They did not see His invisible Spirit. God in His Deity remains unseen.

In all these discussions I always get the feeling that the other party isn't really interested in grasping the concepts put forth, but are simply interested in disagreeing

I guess I feel the same way about the concepts. I really believe what I believe and I am sure you believe what you believe. I am not interested in just arguing and if that is the way I am coming across I'll stop for now. My point is that so many of the things that are said seem contradictory to me, without a lot of extra explanation and explaining away.

I just simply believe God was God and Jesus was the Son of God.

Until next time....

BeenThinkin