Do you think Two Church services a month is enough?

Originally Posted by Michlow

Actually Praxeas, you have hit on a very good point. A point which to me showcases the entire problem with the church. They are so focused on their building funds and programs they are not meeting the needs of the community around them. it's like they are so focused on the "church" (the organization, the building and all the stuff associated with it) and building their own kingdom that Jesus and his kingdom gets pushed aside.

Now, I know I sound critical. But I myself was guilty of that kind of attitude for a long time. In fact, this thread itself showed me that I am REALLY good at sitting around and talking about the problem, but not very good at finding a solution. And I finally realized that I need to BE the solution. I can't continue to go on and complain about what is wrong with the church and how the church isn't doing what I think Jesus wants it to do. No. I need to go out and myself do what Jesus is asking.

You were all right. Sitting at home is accomplishing nothing. So I need to find someway to go out and be Jesus to the poor, needy, hungry and lost in my community. And if I need to do it alone, then so be it.

To quote something a preacher once said: How can you expect to feed the hungry when your own plate is empty? Simply put, the gathering together of God's people, in one mind and one accord, is so that the ministry (remember, those gifts that Jesus gave to His bride, the Church, when he ascended on high and led captivity captive) can do its job of perfecting the saints FOR the work of the ministry, so that the body can do the job it has been called to do in this earth: be salt, be light, have the Word of God to give as bread to the hungry and water to the thirsty.

It isn't an either/or deal, Michlow, it is an everything deal. We are members of His body. Aren't you glad your arms and legs and ears and eyes are available on demand? Aren't you glad they don't just show up when they feel like it? What a mess any person would be in if for some crazy reason the members of his/her body thought that THEY decided when and what and how and where and who and why about anything the head (brain) wanted the body to do.

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by originalsecretplace

There are many people whose ministries are outside the four walls of the church building who get misunderstood because the "inside four the walls" ministry people don't see them as edifying the church. I have a hard time understanding how people think that ministry only includes being a part of a program created and administered inside the four walls of the building and only meant for those who come to the building.

Although we all drink of the same Spirit we each manifest our gifts at different times, places and different ways. People can prophesy and sing and minister (by feeding, clothing, etc) out on the highways and biways as well as within the four walls. But if you are within the four walls all the time how do you have the time to minister elswhere?

I think so many are well-meaning, but confused. They truly have a love for and want to save the lost. But they seem to think that they need to get them saved first, and then they will address their physical needs. So they spend all their effort on the vehicle they believe will usher in that salvation...the church (organization). The get involved in building the church, the programs, the "ministries". And they do it with good intentions, but I just believe they are missing something.

[originalsecretplace]

Originally Posted by SISTER Murphy

To quote something a preacher once said: How can you expect to feed the hungry when your own plate is empty? Simply put, the gathering together of God's people, in one mind and one accord, is so that the ministry (remember, those gifts that Jesus gave to His bride, the Church, when he ascended on high and led captivity captive) can do its job of perfecting the saints FOR the work of the ministry, so that the body can do the job it has been called to do in this earth: be salt, be light, have the Word of God to give as bread to the hungry and water to the thirsty.

Agreed. But if you are in the building all the time how do you minister to those outside the building? As Michlow said there is a balance.

Originally Posted by SISTER Murphy

It isn't an either/or deal, Michlow, it is an everything deal. We are members of His body. Aren't you glad your arms and legs and ears and eyes are available on demand? Aren't you glad they don't just show up when they feel like it? What a mess any person would be in if for some crazy reason the members of his/her body thought that THEY decided when and what and how and where and who and why about anything the head (brain) wanted the body to do.

Jesus is the head of the body. How can I show up or not show up when I'm spiritually connected to the Head -- Jesus Christ -- except by not doing His will?

He is the one that commands the parts to do His will. Not all of His will takes place within the four walls of a building at all times.

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by SISTER Murphy

To quote something a preacher once said: How can you expect to feed the hungry when your own plate is empty? Simply put, the gathering together of God's people, in one mind and one accord, is so that the ministry (remember, those gifts that Jesus gave to His bride, the Church, when he ascended on high and led captivity captive) can do its job of perfecting the saints FOR the work of the ministry, so that the body can do the job it has been called to do in this earth: be salt, be light, have the Word of God to give as bread to the hungry and water to the thirsty.

It isn't an either/or deal, Michlow, it is an everything deal. We are members of His body. Aren't you glad your arms and legs and ears and eyes are available on demand? Aren't you glad they don't just show up when they feel like it? What a mess any person would be in if for some crazy reason the members of his/her body thought that THEY decided when and what and how and where and who and why about anything the head (brain) wanted the body to do.

Hi Roxie

Yes, I am a member of HIS body, not the UPC's body. Not a Pastor's body. Not a local congregations body. But Jesus' body. And I seem to be desperately looking for other members. But everyone I find seems to be pledged to a man or an organization.

[originalsecretplace]

Originally Posted by Michlow

Hi Roxie

Yes, I am a member of HIS body, not the UPC's body. Not a Pastor's body. Not a local congregations body. But Jesus' body. And I seem to be desperately looking for other members. But everyone I find seems to be pledge to a man or an organization.

Not everyone....

[OGIA]

Originally Posted by Michlow

And that is why we need balance! We need to do both! As James said "15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. "

We need both!

Michlow, I'm not trying to be contentious, but did you know WHO James is writing that letter to? It's to saved people, and their "brothers and sisters" are other saved people. I say that all the while recognizing the necessity to reach the hungry, poor, destitute, sick, etc who are NOT "saved". I do agree there must be balance, but just wanted to make sure we don't take scripture out of context.

But I honestly believe that you need to love people UNCONDITIONALLY beyond just wanting to save them. You need to love them whether or not they ever accept the Gospel. Some people are hardened and bitter and it may take years or they may never change. It is just as much a sin to ignore their spiritual needs as it is to ignore their physical needs. That's why we need to do both.

You won't get one argument from me about this!!

I'm learning just how long a process this is with some people, and I've really only scratched the surface! There is a population that doesn't CARE about their soul at that moment; they are starving and only want to know what you've got to feed them! I certainly can't blame them. And this is exactly what the Lord encountered, isn't it? He fed thousands, but not many of them ended up following Him. He knew and even said they were following Him for the food.

Originally Posted by Michlow

I think so many are well-meaning, but confused. They truly have a love for and want to save the lost. But they seem to think that they need to get them saved first, and then they will address their physical needs. So they spend all their effort on the vehicle they believe will usher in that salvation...the church (organization). The get involved in building the church, the programs, the "ministries". And they do it with good intentions, but I just believe they are missing something.

Again, I agree; but please don't use this as a reason not to find a local body to fellowship with. As Sister Murphy said, that is what the gifts of the Spirit and the 5-fold ministry is for.

The group I've come into is STARVING spiritually, because all they've been doing is feeding (physically and emotionally) the needs of others for years now. They are weary and discouraged. They don't have the edification (food) a body of believers can and is meant to provided to them, even IF they are not born again (I expect they will be, though! ). They still need that spiritual energy that only comes from a local body through the Holy Ghost.

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by OGIA

Michlow, I'm not trying to be contentious, but did you know WHO James is writing that letter to? It's to saved people, and their "brothers and sisters" are other saved people. I say that all the while recognizing the necessity to reach the hungry, poor, destitute, sick, etc who are NOT "saved". I do agree there must be balance, but just wanted to make sure we don't take scripture out of context.

LOL, I know that James is referring to believers, but do you really believe that means that we can ignore the needs of others because they aren't in our church?

I don't think the scripture was out of context at all. He goes on to say that faith without works is dead, right? So how much more can we expect those who can't even perceive that they HAVE a spiritual need to listen to us if we ignore their physical needs?

You won't get one argument from me about this!!

I'm learning just how long a process this is with some people, and I've really only scratched the surface! There is a population that doesn't CARE about their soul at that moement; they are starving and only want to know what you've got to feed them! I certainly can't blame them. And this is exactly what the Lord encountered, isn't it? He fed thousands, but only a hundred or so ended up following Him.


Again, I agree; but please don't use this as a reason not to find a local body to fellowship with. As Sister Murphy said, that is what the gifts of the Spirit and the 5-fold ministry is for.

The group I've come into is STARVING spiritually, because all they've been doing is feeding (physically and emotionally) the needs of others for years now. They are weary and discouraged. They don't have the edification (food) a body of believers can and is meant to provided to them, even IF they are not born again (I expect they will be, though! ). They still need that spiritual energy that only comes from a local body.

I think I said that we need balance! I would love to have a like-minded local body. For now, I make due with what I have

[OGIA]

Originally Posted by Michlow

I would love to have a like-minded local body. For now, I make due with what I have

Anything more from me would probably do damage, so I pray that you find what God has for you.

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by OGIA

Anything more from me would probably do damage, so I pray that you find what God has for you.

LOL, I think I am beyond damage. You certainly don't think that i have been around AFF and all its predecessors for 3 years and remained unscathed?

Right now, I am in the place of rebuilding my foundation. I may say or do some radical things, but I am really trying to regain my spiritual bearings. I am in a season. I am certainly not planning on camping out and staying here for ever. But sometimes you learn the most in the wilderness.

[OGIA]

Originally Posted by Michlow

I think I am beyond damage.

I don't believe it for one second. You wouldn't be talking the way you are. Unless you're lying, that is.

Originally Posted by Michlow

But sometimes you learn the most in the wilderness.

How about this: sometimes you learn the most from the wilderness?