I stepped out of leadership while dealing with this issue. I talked to my then pastor about this and told him that I felt that I should not be in any type of ministerial position until this came under submission.
When this becomes known of the individual, then it must be addressed then. It is truly up to the discretion of the pastor, but my thoughts are as follows:
1) They should voluntarily step down until this is resolved in their lives.
2) They should not be exposed for shame, but if exposed should be welcomed to the church for healing and deliverance.
3) They need to become involved in every activity outside of leadership to re-establish things that have probably been torn down.
4) If married, their spouse needs to be informed since there will be a lot of questions arising in regards to fidelity.
There is much more that could be done, but the main thing is to not disfellowship them since if they are desiring of deliverance, how can that happen if they are not allowed to come to church?
Further, if we cannot reach them in love, how can we protect another who may fall prey to the same temptation? Who will protect us should it be our own selves?
Those are great examples!
BUT...what do you do if the person doesn't feel what they are doing is wrong?
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Master of Science in Applied Disgruntled Religious Theorist Wrangling
PhD in Petulant Tantrum Quelling
Dean of the School of Hard Knocks
What if the person is the pastor or at least someone in ministry? I think that's what PP is asking. How do you handle that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Poster
Yes, and what if they continue in the sin thinking it is normal?
Even if the person is the pastor or someone who is in ministry, everybody has someone who is above them that they answer to. Even pastors.
And in that case, I would say that the same principles would apply. If this person is a pastor and he has a problem with porn, goes to his superior to confess the problem and ask for help, then I don't think it would be right to 'sit him down' or 'discipline' him. If he doesn't want help with the porn problem, you can bet yer bottom dollar, ain't nobody gonna know he's got the problem!!
Now, as to the second question:
1) if they are confessing their sin, they obviously don't think that it is normal.
2) yes, sometimes (probably often) they might continue in the sin even after confessing. Does that mean they don't want to stop? NO! That means they are dealing with the terrible affects of addiction (which is sin). So do we toss them out because of that? No, the person who is working with them must continue to love them. And be supportive of them. They do not need to condone the sin in any way. It's fine to call sin sin. We SHOULD do that. But if a real effort is being made then the person working with them must be very careful not to slip into "judge mode". That is not our job. That job belongs to God.
Again, I am saying all of this from a layman's perspective, thanking the Lord that I have never had to deal with it from the perspective that many of you do.
And on that note, I have to call it a night. 6:00 am comes very early at our house. Good night all.
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Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of a battle ! ! ! !
If someone is in leadership and watches porn, or is struggling with watching porn, if watching porn is wrong ,and the church teaches agains't such ,how a person be in leadership who sometimes watches it ,if we tell our people not to watch it?
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People who are always looking for fault,can find it easily all they have to do,is look into their mirror.
There they can find plenty of fault.
However, I have found that some men whose wives (I'm trying to be careful here) are not "responsive" to their "advances" will be more prone to this type of behavior.
I contend that men and women are responsible for there behaviors and just because one spouse does not want or need sex as often as the other does not give them the license to view pornography or to have an affair.
Blessings, Rhoni
OK, help me out here. How can you state that what I have found based upon my experience is not factual?
I HAVE found this to be true in SOME men as I stated. I did not make a blanket statement.
Like you, I fully believe that men and women are responsible for their own actions and nothing gives license for this type of behavior. Stating that some are more prone due to situations in their life does not give license.
Some are also more prone due to other reasons.
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"Those who go after the "Sauls" among us often slay the Davids among us." Gene Edwards
I am obviously not MOW but the sins discussed so far are personal and individual in nature. What you are talking about is gross perversion and the injury of another. BIG difference between the two.
philjones- I don't believe there is a huge divide between porn and child abuse. For some individuals (certainly not all) viewing pornogrophy will be a path of destruction ending with their picture on the front page of the news.
Others won't end up with their pictures in the newspaper because they happened to abuse their own child instead of the neighbor's. I have seen this played out in court too many times to count.
Disclaimer- I fully understand that everyone that views porn isn't going to end up hurting a child. However, I have yet to see anyone in court for abusing a child that wasn't abused as a child or deep into pornogrophy. Sin will always take you farther than you want to go and cost more than one wants to pay.
If someone is in leadership and watches porn, or is struggling with watching porn, if watching porn is wrong ,and the church teaches agains't such ,how a person be in leadership who sometimes watches it ,if we tell our people not to watch it?
First off, ponography is wrong....it is sin! But to take it a step further, how can one preach the Bible and not be guilty in some area? No one is perfect, especially pastors and preachers. It is impossible for ANY minister to not break any part of God's word. That does not give license to break God's word, it is just reality. We all try, but we all fail. There is a difference between not being perfect and being dominated by sin.
The other side of it is that we are ALL broken in some area in our lives. No ONE is exempt, IMO.
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"Those who go after the "Sauls" among us often slay the Davids among us." Gene Edwards
In general, I deal with sin no more publicly than it was committed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newman
I think there is much wisdom spoken here.
I agree, and further, I take issue with those who would relish sharing private sins publicly, in an effort to embarrass or humiliate the person.
I believe that if a person is repentant, there is no need to take any action, except with the concerned/involved parties, unless a crime has been committed.
I certainly don't believe that its necessary or reasonable for folks to get up and confess to the entire congregation. The problem with that is that the confessor[sp?] is not the only one humiliated in such a situation. It's needless.
I remember a situation when I was a teenager where the organist had an affair with a minister (not the pastor) in the church, and she confessed before the entire church what had happened, whilst the minister's poor wife and children sat in the pew. That's just stupid.
What would be the necessary steps, that some of you would like to see? Public confession? Removal from all offices? Relegation to a more menial job like janitor? Two years on the front row? Banishment from the church? Public stoning?
It's easy to say there should be consequences, but its much harder to evaluate each situation and decide, with wisdom and compassion, what those consequences should be, or if there needs to be any at all.
Furthermore, if someone confides in you that they are struggling with a sin, I don't know that it's right to break that confidence, unless they are injuring another party. (And by injuring, I mean actually injuring...not potentially injuring or something abstract.)
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"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
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