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07-18-2009, 04:01 PM
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Re: The UPC is a dying movement!
The thread title is indeed inaccurate............Sandra says change is coming and it's exciting.........Really........Is this coming from the Sandra who would have no problems performing for the Benny Hinn crusade???For Creflo Dollar???????For Kenneth Copeland????????? And I don't know who you would sing for......But you have no prob with the TBN crew so I guess the Hinn/Copeland /Creflo Dollar crowd would be in the same group. These men were all part of the Oral Roberts University board of regents not too long ago around the time ORU was over $50 million in debt..........Mart Green (whose family founded Hobby Lobby) came in and rescued ORU by infusing $70 million.......but he wanted all the televangelists off the board beacause they were the reason the college was over $50 milllion in debt........and they are off the board now.....SO WHY AM I SAYING THIS??????????For this reason......You can't have cred when you have no problems with this bunch...........So Sandra, if the UPC is a dying movement then would you jump on Bennie Hinns bandwagon/sing for his crusade?
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07-18-2009, 04:20 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,596
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Re: The UPC is a dying movement!
This is a GREAT thread!!!
What controversy!!!
On one side we have those who say that the UPC is dead because... 1- there are no young men joining up, and they are glad and 2- because they pused holiness to hard and it is not important...
On the other hand we have those who say that the UPC is dead because they walked away from holiness and they are glad...
Just like a good boxing match,
And in this corner we have the Yoheites..... 
And in this corner we have the Westburgites.... 
Ah, where's the popcorn!
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07-18-2009, 05:02 PM
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Saved by Grace
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Decatur, TX
Posts: 5,247
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Re: The UPC is a dying movement!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa
Oh, BIBLE holiness! That's where you have clean thoughts, and are separated inwardly, and yet the outside looks like something that walked out of a Grateful Dead road show.
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Amen. This is what seems to be the full end of churches who drop standards all together. They get so concerned to teach anything "outward" that there is literally no distinction from the world. Really, I have seen "saints" with green mohawks, and purple pants with holes in them. Folks wearing basketball jerseys and shorts to church, ball caps, haltertops, etc. Where is the line?
Personally, I still believe in outward standards, though I don't believe they are a heaven/hell issue as I once did. The problem with an outward standard isn't teaching people to cover their body, for a man to look like a man and a woman like a woman, but the problem is placing an emphasis on it that God doesn't-namely salvational status.
"holiness standards" is a misnomer, they would be more properly called "modesty standards". But there is nothing wrong with teaching something outward, in its correct context. (something it seems most who leave "standards" are scared to do.)
__________________
"Resolved: That all men should live to the glory of God. Resolved, secondly: That whether or not anyone else does, I will." ~Jonathan Edwards
"The only man who has the right to say he is justified by grace alone is the man who has left all to follow Christ." ~Dietrich Bonheoffer, The Cost of Discipleship
"Preachers who should be fishing for men are now too often fishing for compliments from men." ~Leonard Ravenhill
Last edited by Jason B; 07-18-2009 at 05:39 PM.
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07-18-2009, 05:29 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 146
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Re: The UPC is a dying movement!
There is no doubt that every group has problems......But if the change that makes you happy is for people to assimiliate/look like the hucksters that ran ORU in the ground then that is profoundly sad (and I care not for ORU) ...........so when you speak of a group that is declining.......ask yourself who you choose to associate/perform/sing with.....there may be a number in that crowd in steep decline.
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07-18-2009, 05:42 PM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood too
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 40,299
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Re: The UPC is a dying movement!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandra
They don't have their head in the sand , like many.. they ar trying to save it.
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I got my mind on my money, my money on my mind
As I walk through the valley in the shadow of Jakes
I take a look at my t.v. set
And realize there is more money to make.
'Cause I've been dreaming and golfing so long
That even my congregation is sad my mercedes color is wrong.
But I would never fly first class if I didn't deserve it.
Me be treated like a Holiness Preacher, you know that's unheard of.
You betta watch how ya preaching
And why ya teaching
Or you and your homies might be flying in coach.
I really hate to take up my own offering, but I must you know,
Keep those cards and letters coming, and keep me in the flow.
Saints, I'm the kinda Charismatic that little homie's wanna be like,
On my knees in the night
Saying prayers in the street light.
We've been spending most our lives
Living in a Trintarian Wanna-Be paradise.
We've been spending most our lives
Living in a Trintarian Wanna-Be paradise.
We keep spending most our lives
Living in a Trintarian Wanna-Be paradise.
We keep spending most our lives
Living in a Trintarian Wanna-Be paradise.
Look at the damnation, I got me facing,
I don't want a normal life, I was raised by the television Jimmies.
So I gotta be down with the 'Paula White team,
Too much television watching, got me chasing dreams.
I'm an educated seminarian with money on my mind
Got a saint's pledge in my hand and a gleam in my eye.
I'm a musically talented, television set worshiping sledge
And my homies are down so don't fail to pay your pledge,
fool! fortune and fame ain't nothing but a heart beat away,
I'm living a glamorus life do or die, what can I say?
I'm making three hundred twenty-three thousand now, will I ever see a eight hundred twenty-four thousand dollar more, T. D. Jakes, said yes, and showed me so.
Tell me why do we
Fail to see.
That the ones we love
are me, myself, and me.
We've been spending most our lives
Living in a Trintarian Wanna-Be paradise.
We've been spending most our lives
Living in a Trintarian Wanna-Be paradise.
We keep spending most our lives
Living in a Trintarian Wanna-Be paradise.
We keep spending most our lives
Living in a Trintarian Wanna-Be paradise.
Charismatics seeks the money, money leads to power,
Minute after minute, hour after hour,
Everybody's running the pews, but half of them ain't looking
What's going on in the kitchen
But you don't know what I'm cooking.
Apostolic Pentecostals warn me you're gonna learn
But I know nobody's here to teach you.
If you can't understand it, how can the Apostolics reach you?
I guess they can't,
I guess they won't,
I guess I front,
That's why I know your salvation is running out, fool!
We've been spending most our lives
Living in a Trintarian Wanna-Be paradise.
We've been spending most our lives
Living in a Trintarian Wanna-Be paradise.
We keep spending most our lives
Living in a Trintarian Wanna-Be paradise.
We keep spending most our lives
Living in a Trintarian Wanna-Be paradise.
Tell me why do we
Fail to see.
That the ones we love
are me, myself, and me.
__________________
"all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
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07-18-2009, 06:38 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 146
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Re: The UPC is a dying movement!
Another question Sandra: All these wonderful charismatic/prosperity preaching folks that have seen the light.........why don't they double/quadruple THEIR OWN money instead of trying to do it for everyone else??? They remind me of all these philanthropic folks trying to get you to come to their seminars so they can show YOU how YOU can become so wealthy like they are..........I can assure you if I ever get that wealthy I'll never hold a seminar...........Funny how you never see Bill Gates or Warren Buffet holding those seminars, showing folks the way to properity.........who's really DECLINING HERE?????????????????????????LET ME DOUBLE YOUR MONEY FOLKS BY INVESTING IN THE KINGDOM............
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07-18-2009, 06:45 PM
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Accepts all friends requests
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 13,609
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Re: The UPC is a dying movement!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa
I wasn't raised in the church, Robin Leech was an annoying English guy who had no money, but showed the couch potatoes in front of the tube what they were missing. Who is following Benny Sinner, and company? Why more than half of you guys who post here.  |
Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous... googled it. "More than half..." follow Benny Hinn? In my years here I've only once seen anybody even sort of defend the guy -and then he didn't defend him because he agreed with him.
I think you might have more of a case if you didn't exaggerate everything out of proportion...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa
Oh, BIBLE holiness! That's where you have clean thoughts, and are separated inwardly, and yet the outside looks like something that walked out of a Grateful Dead road show.
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ahhh... case in point.
Dunno about the Grateful Dead - but my righteousness and holiness comes from Jesus Christ Himself - it is gift that was freely imparted to me by my faith in His work. Romans 1:17; Romans 3:21-24; Romans 5:19; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Philippians 3:8-12; 2 Peter 1:1.
If you got your "holiness" and "righteousness" from a dress code, you didn't get it from Jesus and it's not eternal. It's a shame to see other folks being someone else's wood, hay and stubble. Lay ahold of the gold! The holiness that becomes more pure in the fire and doesn't just all go up in smoke.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa
We have a Presbyterian Seminary up the block, and they say the same thing. If you were to sit down with their students they would tell you that you were a heretic and that you needed to understand that tongues were extra-Biblical stuff. One man's heresy, is another man's faith.
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So, because you a have disagreement over tongues with your neighbors I am to be persuaded that your opinion about dress code standards versus genuine imparted righteousness is correct?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa
Oh, merry Xmas! 
When you are down here in Fort Lauderdale call me. |
Yeah, it'll have to be after or around Xmas! I'd love to rent a small boat and just wander around those canals for a few days. It looks incredible on the maps.
Last edited by pelathais; 07-18-2009 at 06:48 PM.
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07-18-2009, 07:07 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: The UPC is a dying movement!
I even started a special thread in honor of the Hinn once....
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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07-18-2009, 07:08 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: The UPC is a dying movement!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
I even started a special thread in honor of the Hinn once....
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Here we go! Complete with a poll and all.
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ead.php?t=8108
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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07-18-2009, 07:30 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 146
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Re: The UPC is a dying movement!
OK........VY.......You have sounded the death knell of the UPCI because of dress standards.........YET......is there anyone in the charismatic/prosperity bunch that you would not associate with/sing for because of character issues?????????Any that I've prev mentioned that have been marked as leeches by nearly everyone?????????The reason I mentioned ORU was because it shows very astute business people (Like Mart Green of Hobby Lobby) knows these people are at the very least poor business managers.....................Do you understand what they are????????Lets talk about the death knell of these folks........or do you disassociate yourself from Duplantis, Hinn, Dollar, Meyer,Copleland, both of the Roberts, et al.........
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