Apology to World

[Newman]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Moving from a country where I had to set my alarm on my home or car every time I turned my back and moving to an Islamic country and not having to lock my door.
Not having to worry about some creep taking one of my children while they play outside. Walking the streets knowing they are free of random thieves, druggies, rapists, con artists, and burglers.

Wii- I find it unjust, vile, disgusting, and horribly wrong that young girls; who haven't yet even reached womanhood) could be married off to one of those creeps (who thus don't have to roam the street looking for a child since child rape is legal for Islam so long as one is "married" be it the first, second, third or fourth wife).

I prefer to watch my children carefully rather live in a society that would sanction such an autracity.

[Walks_in_islam]

Is a Christian woman (without a head covering) who is not dabbling in drugs statistically safer in America or a Middle East country? Really?

Drunk driving will victimize 4 million Americans this year, which means you will have a 60 percent chance of being a victim

Statistically you are not safe at all in America. Even if you are just going about your day. Asked and answered?

(laughing) Reely! I see christian women (i guess they are) from all over the world here with their head uncovered ALL the time! They have certainly lasted longer (years and years) here than the 15 minutes you would last as a soccer mom on the streets of Compton. You have little shelves in your mind where you keep "classifications of violent death"? What difference is the motivation of the perp if you are dead? Does the death somehow have a "different" or "higher level" or "better" classification based on motivation? You keep a "better category" of criminal over there newman?

I am well aware that the problems within your own communities are immaterial to you. It is entertaining to me to point that out. It does not matter how you spread the numbers around. What matters is what the numbers say. Those numbers say that you do not cover the smell of your decay with glitter and a shiny coat of paint. They also say that your problems at HOME are far worse than our problems over HERE.

Originally Posted by Newman

Wii- Prax is right. It is really immaterial that there is violence in America (unrelated to religion) when we are talking about Islamic induced violence.

Nevertheless, I feel compelled to ask you why you compare statistics of a particular American city to all of Iraq rather than the cities in Iraq where there was actual fighting? What was the statistical rate of violence in all of America compared to all of Iraq? I assume we are talking about VERY DIFFERENT NUMBERS when we look at all of America which happens to be where most of America lives.

Is a Christian woman (without a head covering) who is not dabbling in drugs statistically safer in America or a Middle East country? Really?

[Walks_in_islam]

I have 3 daughters. I havent the slightest concern that they are or will be bothered here. Bothering a woman or girl here is a serious thing. I also know you would rather have your children sharing the streets with perverts and filth. The lot of you would. Your preferences and tolerance for that shows up more often than not in your own churches and pews. Unlike you I do not prefer to share my streets with them. That is why I am here.

Originally Posted by Newman

Wii- I find it unjust, vile, disgusting, and horribly wrong that young girls; who haven't yet even reached womanhood) could be married off to one of those creeps (who thus don't have to roam the street looking for a child since child rape is legal for Islam so long as one is "married" be it the first, second, third or fourth wife).

I prefer to watch my children carefully rather live in a society that would sanction such an autracity.

[Newman]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Is a Christian woman (without a head covering) who is not dabbling in drugs statistically safer in America or a Middle East country? Really?

Drunk driving will victimize 4 million Americans this year, which means you will have a 60 percent chance of being a victim

Statistically you are not safe at all in America. Even if you are just going about your day. Asked and answered?

Better hone your math skills a bit.

[Newman]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

(laughing) Reely! I see christian women (i guess they are) from all over the world here with their head uncovered ALL the time! They have certainly lasted longer (years and years) here than the 15 minutes you would last as a soccer mom on the streets of Compton. You have little shelves in your mind where you keep "classifications of violent death"? What difference is the motivation of the perp if you are dead? Does the death somehow have a "different" or "higher level" or "better" classification based on motivation? You keep a "better category" of criminal over there newman?

I am well aware that the problems within your own communities are immaterial to you. It is entertaining to me to point that out. It does not matter how you spread the numbers around. What matters is what the numbers say. Those numbers say that you do not cover the smell of your decay with glitter and a shiny coat of paint. They also say that your problems at HOME are far worse than our problems over HERE.

Wii- Give me a break. You see women being escorted around a big city and call them safe? What if one of them (on her own) chose to venture outside of the area where tourist and/or other Americans are? Really?

I have seen pictures of the Christian Indonesian girls who were beheaded while on their way to school. Is that the kind of safe you are talking about?

And back to the child brides.... Is that just the price they pay from whence their safety comes?

Does the motivation of the criminal make a difference? YES, of course it does. That is why Islam is a growing religion instead of a dying religion. Fear, ignorance and intimidation march on. Society is held hostage.

[Newman]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

I have 3 daughters. I havent the slightest concern that they are or will be bothered here. Bothering a woman or girl here is a serious thing. I also know you would rather have your children sharing the streets with perverts and filth. The lot of you would. Your preferences and tolerance for that shows up more often than not in your own churches and pews. Unlike you I do not prefer to share my streets with them. That is why I am here.

Of course all 3 daughters are safe with you in Saudi Arabia, right? No moral father could possibly leave his children in such an environment, could he?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Haha no, THIS is sophmoric:

Prax: "..You flunked grammar or you just lack communication skills"..

.

Interesting how you keep taking my words out of context. I pointed that out because you made a statement that I pointed out made it seem that I precipitated everything with the "goat"...you denied it. So I had to point out how grammatically flawed your statement was in fact.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by oletime

hey prax is he denying mulsims dont like goats? because my son came back from iraq with one they recorded on night vision of an iraqi with his goat it was pretty sick to say the least!

lol....after his comments about what Pentecostals do and why he would not go visit a church prayer meeting to verify if we find it distasteful, I posted some quotes from this website. It has quotes from studies, like anthropological studies that pointed out that kind of behavior AND MORE.

[oletime]

Originally Posted by Newman

Better hone your math skills a bit.

no kidding newman, i think he better go back to the abbaccus, those world leaders in math over there, i aint no stinkin mathmatician but since i think we have about 300 million in this country and 4 million drunk driving deaths that would be LESS THAN 2 percent chance ? NOT 60 PERCENT WID ! [WALKING IN DARKNESS] check me on that someone please ?

[SOUNWORTHY]

Sounds really safe there. Think they got the horse before the cart. Doesn't sound like gentle home town people.

Saudi Arabia: Rape Victim Punished for Speaking Out
Court Doubles Sentence for Victim, Bans Her Lawyer From the Case
November 15, 2007
Related Materials: Saudi Arabia: Lift Gag-Order on Rights Campaigner
This verdict not only sends victims of sexual violence the message that they should not press charges, but in effect offers protection and impunity to the perpetrators.
Farida Deif, researcher in the women’s rights division of Human Rights WatchA court in Saudi Arabia doubled its sentence of lashings for a rape victim who had spoken out in public about her case and her efforts to seek justice, Human Rights Watch said today. The court also harassed her lawyer, banning him from the case and confiscating his professional license.

An official at the General Court of Qatif, which handed down the sentence on November 14, said the court had increased the woman’s sentence because of “her attempt to aggravate and influence the judiciary through the media.” The court sentenced the rape victim to six months in prison and 200 lashes, more than double its October 2006 sentence after its earlier verdict was reviewed by Saudi Arabia’s highest court, the Supreme Council of the Judiciary.

Human Rights Watch called on King Abdullah to immediately void the verdict and drop all charges against the rape victim and to order the court to end its harassment of her lawyer.

“A courageous young woman faces lashing and prison for speaking out about her efforts to find justice,” said Farida Deif, researcher in the women’s rights division of Human Rights Watch. “This verdict not only sends victims of sexual violence the message that they should not press charges, but in effect offers protection and impunity to the perpetrators.”

The young woman, who is married, said she had met with a male acquaintance who had promised to give her back an old photograph of herself. After she met her acquaintance in his car in Qatif, a gang of seven men then attacked and raped both of them, multiple times. Despite the prosecution’s requests for the maximum penalty for the rapists, the Qatif court sentenced four of them to between one and five years in prison and between 80 and 1,000 lashes. They were convicted of kidnapping, apparently because prosecutors could not prove rape. The judges reportedly ignored evidence from a mobile phone video in which the attackers recorded the assault.

Moreover, the court in October 2006 also sentenced both the woman and man who had been raped to 90 lashes each for what it termed “illegal mingling.” Human Rights Watch is particularly concerned that the criminalization of any contact between unmarried individuals of the opposite sex in Saudi Arabia severely impedes the ability of rape victims to seek justice. A court may view a woman’s charge of rape as an admission of extramarital sexual relations (or “illegal mingling”) unless she can prove, by strict evidentiary standards, that this contact was legal and the intercourse was nonconsensual.

In an interview in December, the rape victim described to Human Rights Watch her treatment in court:

“At the first session, [the judges] said to me, ‘what kind of relationship did you have with this individual? Why did you leave the house? Do you know these men?’ They asked me to describe the situation. They used to yell at me. They were insulting. The judge refused to allow my husband in the room with me. One judge told me I was a liar because I didn’t remember the dates well. They kept saying, ‘Why did you leave the house? Why didn’t you tell your husband [where you were going]?’”
“Victims of sexual violence in Saudi Arabia face enormous obstacles in the criminal justice system,” said Deif. “Their interrogations and court hearings are more likely to compound the trauma of the original assault than provide justice.”

During the recent hearings, Judge al-Muhanna of the Qatif court also banned the woman’s lawyer, Abd al-Rahman al-Lahim, from the courtroom and from any future representations of her, without apparent reason. He also confiscated his lawyer’s identification card, which the Ministry of Justice issues. Al-Lahim faces a disciplinary hearing at the Ministry of Justice on December 5, where sanctions can include suspension for three years and disbarment.

Al-Lahim, who is Saudi Arabia’s best-known human rights lawyer, earlier this year had planned to take legal action against the Ministry of Justice for failing to provide him with a copy of the verdict against his client so that he could prepare an appeal. Despite numerous representations to the court and the ministry, he was not given a copy of the case file or the verdict.

“The decision to ban the rape victim’s lawyer from the case shows what little respect Saudi authorities have for the legal profession or the law in general,” said Sarah Leah Whitson, Middle East director at Human Rights Watch.

On October 3, King Abdullah announced a judicial reform, promising new specialized courts and training for judges and lawyers. There is currently no rule of law in Saudi Arabia, which does not have a written penal code. Judges do not follow procedural rules and issue arbitrary sentences that vary widely. Often, judges do not provide written verdicts, even in death penalty cases. Judges sometimes deny individuals their right to legal representation. In May 2006, a judge in Jeddah had thrown a lawyer out of his courtroom in a civil suit on the sole basis that he is of the Isma’ili faith, a branch of Shiism. Trials remain closed to the public.