Angels and their ability to sin

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by EVAunit01

Correct. I can't find any place where the Bible says that everyone is a descendant of Adam and Eve.

.

It does say that Eve is the mother of all living.

[mfblume]

Adam is called the FIRST MAN.

[rava61]

I heard the theory of angels and women getting together from different groups; however, I don't buy into that. If you look closely at the beginning with the creation of 'man', you will see that there were two groups of people: the male and female created in the first chapter of Genesis was not Adam and Eve.

Now that shed a whole new light on the whole creation.......

[EVAunit01]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

It does say that Eve is the mother of all living.

The mother of all living what? All living trees? All living birds? She couldn't possibly be the mother of all living things. To say she's the mother of all living Jews makes sense though.

Originally Posted by mfblume

Adam is called the FIRST MAN.

Where is that found at?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by EVAunit01

The mother of all living what? All living trees? All living birds? She couldn't possibly be the mother of all living things. To say she's the mother of all living Jews makes sense though.



Where is that found at?

1 Cor 15.

Not only that, but Adam is considered the reason we are born in sin. If there were people aside from Adam, or before him, in the earth, there would be people not born in sin. Our opinion of whether Adam was first or not affects everything else, especially regarding sin and need for salvation.

[EVAunit01]

Originally Posted by mfblume

1 Cor 15.

Not only that, but Adam is considered the reason we are born in sin. If there were people aside from Adam, or before him, in the earth, there would be people not born in sin. Our opinion of whether Adam was first or not affects everything else, especially regarding sin and need for salvation.

But I Corinthians 15 is not about the creation. That chapter is about salvation through the resurrection of Christ. Can you tell me specifically what verse you are referring to?

It seems to me that if your position were really the case it would be mentioned somewhere in Genesis, along with the account of the rest of creation.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by EVAunit01

But I Corinthians 15 is not about the creation. That chapter is about salvation through the resurrection of Christ. Can you tell me specifically what verse you are referring to?

It seems to me that if your position were really the case it would be mentioned somewhere in Genesis, along with the account of the rest of creation.

First of all, since Genesis mentions God creating Heaven and earth in the context leading up to Man's creation, and the same words describing Adam's creation in chapter 2 are noted in chapter 1 in that context, context shows Adam is the first man in Genesis.

1 Cor 15:45 notes Adam as the first man. This is the head of the human race, as much as Jesus is the LAST Adam who is head of the new creation race.

Not only that, Adam is mentioned as being the reason we all shall die. We were IN ADAM as sinners. how did we get into Adam? We were born in his family. If Adam was not the first man, what about the people not derived from Adam. And, as I noted, sin is attributed to Adam in 1 Cor 15.

1 Corinthians 15:22 KJV (22) For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

This means those not born of Adam, from some hypothetical other people, would not be in need of salvation.

[gloryseeker]

Originally Posted by Sam

a warning to you ladies,

if you trim your hair,

you are not only damning your soul,

and forfeiting your salvation,

but, even worse,

you are tempting more angels to sin



at least that's how some teach about the 11th chapter of 1 Corinthians.

This would be laughable if it wasn't so sad that there are some who believe it

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by mfblume

First of all, since Genesis mentions God creating Heaven and earth in the context leading up to Man's creation, and the same words describing Adam's creation in chapter 2 are noted in chapter 1 in that context, context shows Adam is the first man in Genesis.

1 Cor 15:45 notes Adam as the first man. This is the head of the human race, as much as Jesus is the LAST Adam who is head of the new creation race.

Not only that, Adam is mentioned as being the reason we all shall die. We were IN ADAM as sinners. how did we get into Adam? We were born in his family. If Adam was not the first man, what about the people not derived from Adam. And, as I noted, sin is attributed to Adam in 1 Cor 15.

1 Corinthians 15:22 KJV (22) For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

This means those not born of Adam, from some hypothetical other people, would not be in need of salvation.

If Adam was not the first man, it would be error to say that IN Adam shall all die. In Christ shall all be made alive, means that everyone who comes into Christ will be saved, requiring the same exhaustive language to be understood when reading how that "in Adam" causes all to die.

If Adam was not the first of all humanity, requiring all to be saved due to his sin, then Christ is not the answer for all humanity.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by mfblume

It is inconclusive to say 1/3 of the angels fell. We read in Rev 12 that 1/3 of the stars were thrown down by the dragon's tail, but we are not told WHEN that occurred, neither are we told they are heavenly angels. Just stars. Stars in Rev 1 were angels of the churches.

But we do read that angels lost their first estate. That can only mean they have free will. We do not know WHEN they fell or WHY. Jude only mentioned they did. And that implies lack of faithfulness.

Jude 1:6 KJV And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.


Tradition alone says 1/3 of the stars falling means heavenly angels. It is only conjecture.

I don't think it's tradition. There seems to be biblical evidence the stars are angels, as you mentioned

Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and the seven golden lampstands is this: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.

Dan 8:10 It grew so big it reached the army of heaven, and it brought about the fall of some of the army and some of the stars to the ground, where it trampled them.

Army....the Host of heaven.

1Ki 22:19 And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.

Host
tsaw-baw', tseb-aw-aw'
From H6633; a mass of persons (or figurative things), especially regularly organized for war (an army); by implication a campaign, literally or figuratively (specifically hardship, worship): - appointed time, (+) army, (+) battle, company, host, service, soldiers, waiting upon, war (-fare).

Job 38:7 when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Morning stars.

Now consider the context though

Rev 12:7 Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back,
Rev 12:8 but he was defeated and there was no longer any place for them in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world--he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.