Tithing…Is it a command?

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by HaShaliach

Everyone here should know by now that I am not a qualified teacher of God's word. I am only a "serious student" of the Word.

James 3:1 ¶ Be not many of you teachers (a), my brethren, knowing that we shall receive (1) heavier judgment. (a) masters [KJV]. (1) Gr greater)

However, I am prepared to show a slightly different path of study, for those who are interested.

There is a place and a role for the Law to play in our lives. We can find it if we will just read the Bible with a little understanding, rather than interpreting it through our doctrinal filters. This approach is necessary because no doctrine of man (created by and through his own reasoning) is without error. Therefore, once the doctrinal filters are firmly in place, further "clear revelation" from God and His word is very difficult to receive. For example, it is an established fact that one is not to receive a "new revelation" concerning God unless it is (1) also revealed in the scriptures or (2) does not conflict (or contradict) scripture. These rules are good and necessary. But, if one is blind to the written word of scripture, then all further revelation - based on that word - is also lost to the reader. Because of this human failing, religious wars have been fought.

When studying (not casual or general reading) the Bible, two of the important rules to keep in mind are (1) keep a good language lexicon (not a dictionary) handy and (2) a copy of a good original language Bible text. The purpose is to investigate the original meanings of the key words in each passage. I can discuss this requirement in a little more detail, later.

The truth? We cannot separate the law and being in obedience to it from grace and "freedom from the law". They are two sides of the same coin, i.e. without the law, grace has no meaning. Without grace, the law is without mercy and justice cannot be served.

So, the entire issue around tithing that has been discussed on this thread, in addition to being a question concerning the cleaning up of false doctrines, it is symptomatic of how we all (every one of us) frequently fail to correctly divide the word of truth.

While I have yet a very long way to go in this study, I am willing to share some of the material I have gleaned so far.

The study can be generally understood in terms of: What is the Law of God and what role or function does is it to play in the lives of Christians?

This study is the integration of three different on-going studies.

What is the Law of God and how is that law reflected in the seven (even eight) covenants made between God and man.

Looking behind the veil of the law, a study of Mathew, chapters five through seven.

The limits placed on the law and of grace.

While I am still working on these studies, I cannot forecast how long it will take - or even the direction it will go, or the final conclusions that I will draw from the study(ies). But, that is the wonder of a Bible study based on the word and on the Spirit, rather than on predefined doctrines and organizational dogma.

Most likely I will conduct the open portion of this study on my own site - and every one is welcome to monitor it there. I will conduct it there because I have already made a couple of false starts in posting a few thoughts already, and there has been some interest in joining such a study by a couple of folks from other forums. In this way, I can just post everything once, rather than all over the Internet! Joining the community is an option for posting questions and comments, but member ship is not required to audit the study.

We do request a real name however, to help weed out spammers (we get 2-6 per day). If anyone wishes to join and has a concern about using a real name - PM me for arrangements.

For every one else - you will not be missing out on very much! Just the rambling of an old mountain man.

That is a well worded and very valuable post.

My journey on the tithe issue started out about 5 years ago. The tithe has always been taught to me all my life and I practiced it. About 5 years ago we traveled from one state to another to visit with friends and my daughter was taught in the SS class that if you didn't pay the tithe you would go to hell.

Now... I have had the tithe taught... and I think it is a wonderful example... but I have never heard it taught that, without it, you would burn in hell.

When we got back home our very own pastor taught the same thing. This was beginning to get disturbing. Now... I was paying tithes so that wasn't the issue.

The issue was this sudden onslaught of "pay your tithes or burn in hell" statements. So all of this prompted me to do a study.

I was surprised to discover many of the things I discovered in my study.

1. (Spoken very quietly as to not stir up NFS) The tithe was on the increase of land & cattle etc. One might plant seed and might water... but God gives that increase and 10% of that increase belongs to him. Ones compensation for their labor is not an increase. Never has been. I find no reference where fishermen ever even tithed. Now... If I owned a fish farm... then one might consider the tithe because now you are starting off with a set amount and God is giving the increase. etc.

2. I studied about the contemporaries of Malachi's time (I have a thread on the subject here) and found that Nehemiah was one such contemporary. I went to Nehemiah and read of the things he dealt with and was surprised to find a very solid correlation between what Nehemiah found in Jerusalem and what Malachi was dealing with. As a matter of fact... we all know that the one that would "purge the floor" is prophetic of Christ... But it makes me wonder if it did not also, in a contemporary sense at the time of the writing, refer to the coming of Nehemiah to set things straight in Jerusalem. The priests (who were not even supposed to handle the tithe except for their portion dealt to them by the Levites) were now handling the tithe completely. They had emptied the storehouse (where the tithe was stored) and had moved an Amalekite in (who were not even supposed to be allowed to be a part of the congregation). They had sent the Levites out and they were having to work in the field (which is what their portion of the tithe was to free them from) and there was commerce being undertaken on the sabbath.

Those who were stealing from God... were the priests. Cut and dried... pure and simple.

These and others things that I discovered in my study were quite an eye opener.

As I have said before... I pay my tithe. I especially make sure and do this since I make such a stand against the teaching of the tithe as a law. I feel that this is even more necessary since I make such a strong stand as the Bible says to live above reproach.

But the law is always lacking because of the weakness of man without God.

See... if you teach 10% or hell... then the poor little old lady (who, according to the law and the NT should be taken care of... not charged) will have to struggle to give her little 10%.

Others will find that 10% is about a right amount.

While a rich family can give 10% while their ability to give and bless others might be much higher.

Laws fall short. A spirit of giving reaches everyone where they are and compels them to give as God leads them.

What need is there to search for God's leading in giving if we have been given a cut and dried amount.

My rant isn't about the tithe. My rant is about the tithe being taught as a law required upon NT Saints. We are to give as the Lord lays it upon our heart and as we feel led. We are to give out of the abundance of our hearts... not out of an edict complete with threat of hell fire.

[A.W. Bowman]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

My rant isn't about the tithe. My rant is about the tithe being taught as a law required upon NT Saints.

It does pay to pick one's battles carefully. You have done well.

[NotforSale]

I do want to say a couple of more things regarding this issue.

First, I'm a little suprised no one else has come to help me out with this. It seems the only ones on this thread are those opposed to the Tithe as being the benchmark of what is God's.

Second, for those on here who think I'm not willing to change my view on this have completely mis-judged me. I am not afraid of change, and, will change if the Truth prevails with a solid interpretation of the Word and History.

Third, still no one has really given a valid scope on what Jesus said about what is God's. Jesus compared what is God's to that which is Ceaser's. And, Jesus was referring to MONEY when dealing with this. And, this was in the New Testament. And, a Tax is a percentage. And, Jesus was very candid in talking about MONEY in the Gospels.

If God's portion is compared to that of Ceaser's, the Tax being required (Jesus paid taxes according to the Law of the land), the Tithe also belongs to God. What other measuring gauge is in the Bible regarding what is God's?

In case people haven't noticed, God is a God of MATH! He made the Heavens and the Earth in perfect balance. The human body is an intracate model of MATH and BALANCE. The Bible is also proven to be a Book of MATH and NUMBERS. Prophecy, Time, Age, Seasons, Farming, these all revolve around the system of Numbers and Pecentages.

The amount called Tithing is an age old practice done by those before the Law even existed.

Also, to accuse men and churches of mis-using the Tithe is no excuse to not pay Tithes. Man will always corrupt what is right, and we must constantly seek Him in our prayers and conscience so that we can avoid error with what belongs to Him.

I'm the last one who want's to fall into the Law that doesn't set one free. But, I understand certain Laws do protect us, keep us safe, and give us the border or fence necessary that eliminates confusion.

Tithing is simple, just, and works in keeping God's House a place of order and function. It also blesses the giver, in time, with great understanding and love for His work in this lost world. Those who Tithe will come to know Him in a measure beyond mammon, as long as the heart is not boastful or twisted into trumpeting for an outward reward.

God asks us to prove Him. I have. Many have. I have never regretted Tithing, and, I know beyond a shadow of doubt, He has helped me in ways I could never repay. Not because of how much, or how little I've given, but because I bring my offering to Him in gratitude and love for His great Mercy upon my life that was so lost.

Thanks for all your comments of challenge.

[A.W. Bowman]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

Third, still no one has really given a valid scope on what Jesus said about what is God's. Jesus compared what is God's to that which is Ceaser's. And, Jesus was referring to MONEY when dealing with this. And, this was in the New Testament. And, a Tax is a percentage. And, Jesus was very candid in talking about MONEY in the Gospels.

If God's portion is compared to that of Ceaser's, the Tax being required (Jesus paid taxes according to the Law of the land), the Tithe also belongs to God. What other measuring gauge is in the Bible regarding what is God's?

A reasonable request. For reference here is the cited passage.

Matthew 22:15 ¶ Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might ensnare him in his talk.
16 And they send to him their disciples, with the Herodians, saying, Teacher, we know that thou art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, and carest not for any one: for thou regardest not the person of men.
17 Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?
18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why make ye trial of me, ye hypocrites?
19 Show me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a (1) denarius.
20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?
21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
22 And when they heard it, they marvelled, and left him, and went away.

First we have the conspiracy to trap Jesus in “his talk”. History: There was a major political split between the Pharisees and the Herodians. The Pharisees stood opposed to the Roman rule while the Herodians supported it. This alliance between opposing political parties was not the last of such collaboration. The opposing religious parties, the Pharisees and the Sadducees also joined forces to eliminate Jesus.

Object: In this passage the object was to get Jesus to commit to one political position or the other, thereby causing him to loose the support of one group of people or the other, thereby wreaking his over all popularity and influence. That is, it would be easer to mount a public supported attack against him, causing confusion, the taking of sides, and deflecting his message from the spiritual realm back to the political arena. It didn’t really matter which side Jesus chose, both the Pharisees and the Herodians were looking for any way possible to silence Jesus. [Note, when this didn’t work, it was the two opposing religious groups that joined together for the same purpose.]

So, the question was put to Jesus, “Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?” Obviously there is no right answer to this trick question.

Note: Taxes to the king were sometimes referred to as attribute, Nehemiah 5:4, which, if paid to a foreign king, could be interpreted as recognizing that king, i.e., Caesar, to be the lawful king of the Jews. Caesar was considered by Rome to be a god, and every one was ordered to worship (regard) him as one. So we have both the political and religious aspects at play here. Therefore, we have the question of the law:

Not to worship idols in the manner they are worshiped or as God is to be worshiped Ex. 20:5-6

Jesus, seeing right through the deception identified the focus, and the weakness of the trap: Tribute money.

And, we have the famous answer, “Render therefore unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.” Tribute money goes to kings, such as Caesar, not to God.

While the Jews had a king in name only, Rome ruled the Jews, and Jesus identified that king, Caesar. Therefore, give the king’s tribute (the king’s money) to the king. But to God, give to Him the things that are His alone: the sacrifice of worship, love and obedience, the substance of which is found in one’s heart, not their purse.

--------------

If God's portion is compared to that of Ceaser's, the Tax being required (Jesus paid taxes according to the Law of the land), the Tithe also belongs to God. What other measuring gauge is in the Bible regarding what is God's?

Jesus was not comparing the two "portions", he separate the two from each other, for it was the combining of the two (Caesar's "tribute coin" and God's worship - there is no coin that has the image of God on it) that is what the trap was designed to exploit.

Added note: This teaching of Jesus would also appear to preclude the use of a Roman coin from being used for the paying of tithes. Plus, every reference to tithing made by Jesus, he never included money. Ah, but the love of money (wealth), that is another story all together.

Did this help? Or, did I just make a muck of it?

[A.W. Bowman]

Sorry kids, but if you read my post before this note was added, you missed several corrections and an added comment or two.

[gloryseeker]

It is interesting to read all the post that this thread has created. It is especially interesting to read all the "biblical reasoning" why the tithe is some OT done away with system.

Well, as a strong advocate of tithing (actually in my opinion tithing is not even giving - our giving starts after the tithe because God said that the tithe is His, not that it becomes His) I have been told by people on AFF that "God would teach me something" meaning that I was going to loose income or go down because of my beliefs.

Well just a brief report in this poor economic climate. From a ministry standpoint December was our best month financially of 2008...Jan through April has been stronger than 2008 also. On a personal note our income and giving has increased also.

Wow! I love God's system...tithes and offerings are cool!!!!

[Jason B]

Glory, who said God would teach you a leeson? I specifically said, you would be blessed (IMO)-but not because of "tithing", but because of the principle of reaping and sowing sparingly or bountifully.

What bothers me about you on this subject is that you justify yourself because of what you do (tithe). You ALMOST come across as having purchased your own salvation through "obedience to the law" rather than the blood of Christ. I am pretty sure you don't believe this, but you certainly come across that way sometimes.

PS-We are still waiting for someone to give us a scriptural example that we are supposed to tithe money, so that we can all get right with God. Maybe you have the secret scripture? Please share your scriptural proof that tithing (money) is binding on Christians.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by gloryseeker

Well just a brief report in this poor economic climate. From a ministry standpoint December was our best month financially of 2008...Jan through April has been stronger than 2008 also. On a personal note our income and giving has increased also.

Wow! I love God's system...tithes and offerings are cool!!!!

What do you say to people who have tithed faithfully, and have been hit hard by these economic times? Losing their jobs, cars, houses, etc?

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by gloryseeker

It is interesting to read all the post that this thread has created. It is especially interesting to read all the "biblical reasoning" why the tithe is some OT done away with system.

Well, as a strong advocate of tithing (actually in my opinion tithing is not even giving - our giving starts after the tithe because God said that the tithe is His, not that it becomes His) I have been told by people on AFF that "God would teach me something" meaning that I was going to loose income or go down because of my beliefs.

Well just a brief report in this poor economic climate. From a ministry standpoint December was our best month financially of 2008...Jan through April has been stronger than 2008 also. On a personal note our income and giving has increased also.

Wow! I love God's system...tithes and offerings are cool!!!!

I'm glad someone has finally come in to help me out a little. God's system is important, valid, and does work with a flow that comes from above.

I will say though, people who Tithe or give, can lose thier job, face very difficult times financially, even to the point of losing everything. God's blessing comes in other forms, not just financial or substance.

God can help us internally, putting vigor in the soul to press on, learn a new trade, or win battles when all odds are against us. Prosperity has many faces. For instance, a poor person can be rich in spirit, possesing a peace that passes all understanding. I've seen those with very little, shine with Joy unspeakable. This prosperity, money can't buy.

Also, I won't discredit how God can carry us through the darkest of times. The world can fall apart, but nothing is too hard for God. He can give us provision when death's door is what seems to be next. He can send a raven to feed us, or fill the cruse with oil when all oil is gone.

[gloryseeker]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

What do you say to people who have tithed faithfully, and have been hit hard by these economic times? Losing their jobs, cars, houses, etc?

To make a long answer very short:

1. Tithing is not a money transaction...it's about honor so I would start with the basics on how/why the person is giving and the difference between giving in faith and giving out of ritual.

2. Then I would explore other issues of life. Because tithing is not an end all. A person can tithe, but be living in sin and their tithing is not going to over ride other aspects of their life.

3. Then I would show them how their faith, the Word, God's promises, and their life can turn their situation around.

Now, after saying that I would say that I don't think I have ever had anyone get into the type of scenario that you described because I am proactive and not reactive. My favorite illustration is that it is easier to believe for a safe airline flight before you get on the plane then to believe that everything will be okay at 30,000 feet and having the engines go out.