5 Things AFF Doesn't Know About Me!

[Elizabeth]

Originally Posted by ILG

Oh that does ruin your image!! LOL! Yeah, some things are best left unknown to the offspring!!

What other misconceptions do others have of me that I may ruin that as well??

It's just an example of how far I was when God touched my life--plus I was a stupid teenager, no very stupid teenager not in the educational sense but possessing any common sense-nada didnt have any!

[Elizabeth]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Guilty as charged.....I thought I'd offer some contrast.

I thought it was funny too,

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Elizabeth

What other misconceptions do others have of me that I may ruin that as well??

It's just an example of how far I was when God touched my life--plus I was a stupid teenager, no very stupid teenager not in the educational sense but possessing any common sense-nada didnt have any!

Are any teenagers smart??

[Elizabeth]

Originally Posted by ILG

Are any teenagers smart??

Not when I got done with them.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Elizabeth

Not when I got done with them.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by Elizabeth

Not when I got done with them.

Hmmm, my mom was just the opposite.


Matter of fact she would admit it..


"Boy, I'm gonna slap the stupid outa you!"

Took several attempts,

some say she didn't get it all ...

[Elizabeth]

Originally Posted by scotty

Hmmm, my mom was just the opposite.


Matter of fact she would admit it..


"Boy, I'm gonna slap the stupid outa you!"

Took several attempts,

some say she didn't get it all ...

Lol!

I like your Mom! My mom did the same to me!...as you can tell I needed it!

[ILG]

Well, I thought about this all night long. I have mixed feelings about writing this but I feel like God wants me to do it......some of this for the first time ever. If you are looking for cheery news, you might want to skip this post. On the other hand, if you want the truth no matter how painful, here is is. I hadn't realized how mum I had become until I posted about some of my past. I was shocked that many of you who I have been posting with for years didn't even know these things. It was then I got to thinking about writing more.

I see my history in the UPC in three stages, and I will write it as a such.

You know my background as I went into that before. My husband and I moved almost 1000 miles from where we were raised and it was there we got into the UPC. We had already repented and recieved the Holy Ghost and were completley new Christians. I had been baptized in the titles and was wonderfully cleansed. We were not married when we first went to the UPC and didn't know it was a horrible thing. The pastor pulled my husband aside and told him we were living in sin and needed to get married. We were very concerned about this and wanted to please God and so we made plans for a quick wedding. None of our relatives were there since we were so far from home.

The pastor also told us we needed to be baptized and I told him I had already been. He told me some theological stuff that I didn;t understand and said I needed to anyway because the preacher didn't do it right. He said I was not saved. I was concerned about this and got baptized. I fell into standards right off. I wanted to do anything that would please God and I figured these people were very godly and knew what I should do. The first year things were pretty good. I was newly married. I was pregnant shortly after we got married and was sickly but did okay. We had some support from the family that taught us Search for Truth. After I had the baby, I could not read anything because of the glare and couldn't stand anyone to touch my back. I had been in hard labor for about 5 hours and they were going to take the baby by C-section.

The church was supportive and there in the waiting room and prayed for me and the baby came. But there was something wrong with me. I read in magazines that you were tired after having a baby and so I figured I was okay. But I was utterly exhausted. I lost a great deal of weight. I am sure I had post-partum depression. My husband joined the ministry and the expectations on us were greater. I had some questions about things but mostly just didn't worry about it too much. After I had the baby it seemed I couldn't reason things out as well. I had no strength. I lost so much weight, my husband mentioned it a time or two but only when I got a letter from an aunt I had seen who was concerned about me did I realize it was a problem. No one in the church said anything to me about it.

The couple who taught us Search for Truth got divorced (they had pastored previously). (This was the second divorce in that church since we arrived.) Then, the worship leader committed adultery and had been song leading for some time when this was found out and he and his wife divorced. Then, another man and his wife divorced. I was concerned about this and went to my pastor. He said he was only able to tell me about one of the situations. The man who was in the church and the wife who was not, she was ripping his Sunday School books up and throwing them on the lawn. I didn't understand this to be a reason for divorce and I left more confused than when I came. I started to become cynical.

Since I could no longer fellowship with those who had taught us Search for Truth and since we were in the ministry, I looked to our pastor and his wife for fellowship. Big mistake. They were pretty content with the way things were. I had the feeling they really didn't want to bother with us but on the flip side, I knew I had been a rank sinner and figured it was my fault they didn't want to be around me. The church was small so there wasn't people to pick from. The pastor preached separation from the world and he also preached that church wasn't a social club. In order to deal with this and my need for friends, I began to teach Bible Studies. I taught Bible studies weekly for years. I also saw women in my church who I knew were not being ministered to and I made it my goal that they were not going to suffer like I did, with no one to talk to and no one to care how they were feeling or what they were going through.

This worked partially, but the problem for me was that I was ministering to them. That meant I was there for them, but I personally didn't feel there was anyone there for me. Yes, these women loved me, but I was going into the ministry. I needed someone in the ministry to help me work through my own problems. I went to the pastor a few times, and usually ended up crying in my room afterwards.

I was the worship leader and I really wanted to revitalize the worship. One time, after fasting for days to get up the courage, I talked to my pastor about changing some things. "There are people who want to worship more" I said. He said in a sarcastic tone "Well, then, why don't they??" I explained that I wanted to sing more songs than just three and then quit and he said "Fine. But you don't have to sing them over and over. I pretty much got it the first time around."

We assisted there for 7 years without pay. When we left, we felt the pastor sighed a big sigh of relief. We felt like he just put up with us because God sent us and he could use us.

During these years I wrestled and wrestled with standards.....not in living them myself, but in the way that they were taught. If jewelry was wrong, it was wrong. My pastor was very strict and taught these things in a black and white manner, but people in the section did all sorts of things. I also can't minimize the impact that teaching of certain things being salvational had on my mind. I think because of what happened after the birth of my child, I could not reason well and could not stand up for myself. This, along with my upbringing on top of it. I also saw things in a very black and white manner and this took a toll on my mind.

My second child was born and again, I lost a great deal of weight and this time, I went down far in weight and mind because I had two children to care for and had a much harder time resting. Still, no one at the church knew or even cared what was happening to me (except my few ladies that I did not share my life with because I was their minister and ministerial ethics demanded that I only do certain things). I expected my pastor to watch out for me. I went into deep depression. I started fasting and praying all the time, looking for relief, searching for answers. I had been called to preach by then and this greatly concerned me because I had serious questions about it. I talked to my pastor three times and he said he would get back to me with information and he never did. One time he said "You're really concerned about this aren't you?" And I said YES!! And still, he never got back to me.

I made a good friend around this time...she was a pastor's wife and so I felt could be a real friend I could talk to. I did talk to her and loved her to death. We had some great times. After a couple of years, she started talking about a guy in her town. I assumed it was a passing thing. Soon, she ran off with him and left her husband, children, me and others in her wake. She did apologize to me years later.

This was about the time we went into Home Missions, which will be part 2.

[ILG]

Part 2

Our presbyter asked us to go to a certain town. He said the church there had been disbanded and always met on a storefront and there were two ladies left and some money and land. We agreed to go. This was discussed in hushed tones with our pastor before it was discussed with us, and he agreed too.

Our first service there, there were about 20 people and the old pastor was there conducting the service and they all looked mad that we were there. We were asked to leave so they could have a business meeting. We were told to stay at our home church and things would be worked out. A few weeks leter we were back, nothing was explained to us and there we were with the 2 ladies. But we were told there would be no money or land. My parents didn't understand why we wanted to do this nor did they understand anything else we did. Neither did my siblings.

We packed up our things (alone...no help from the church) and moved about 50 miles from our old church. Our pastor did give us $500.00 for our services over the years which I thought was nice.

This began our Home Missions time. We believed that everyone believed in the whole gospel to the whole world. There were lots of UPC churches surrounding us and we were glad, feeling like we would have support. In the end, the support we got was people guarding their turf and making sure we didn't steal their saints. We felt like the best way to get to know people better was to invite pastors out to speak for us, which we did. That was a mixed bag. Sometimes it was good. Other times it wasn't. Our presbyter was asked to come and we put an ad in the paper etc, and then he didn't show up. We thought that he had simply forgot. A few months later a couple from his church transferred to ours and they told us they were with him that night. (We did not bring this up...they did). They said he hit his head and said "Oh no! I am suppoed to be at xyz!!" But, no apology, no phone call.

I decided to have an open house and I invited everyone in town I knew to it. That would be about 15 people. I cooked and cleaned and nobody showed up. Not even my mother-in-law who lives closeby and started attending our church. I was crushed.

I did see miracles. I drove by a church building one day and felt the Lord speak to me. He said "Call the pastor and ask to buy this building". This church had people in it meeting weekly. I told my husband and he said do it if you want to. I felt it strongly and so I did. The pastor was a little taken a back but he said he would consider it. After a lot of negotiating and his higher ups almost putting a kabosh on the deal, they sold it to us. The district board was only partly for buying it but they did give us some money to put down on the building and helped us out.

The presbyter told my husband we should have an installation service and that he should set one up. My husband said he felt funny, honoring himself with a service and that if they wanted to have one in our church we would be happy to host it but we didn't want to put it on. We wanted them to arrange it. It never happened. Months later some pastor friends of ours (yes we made a couple to discuss pastoral issues with) was being installed after taking his Dad's church. Sitting there, looking at all the beautiful flowers and honor they were getting, and realizing we would never be honored in that way, I felt very sad. We went to McDonalds after the service and I looked on the ground outside and there was a dozen roses, fresh and beautiful. It had a card on it from some lover to another, but these flowers were for me, from the Lord. He would honor me if no one else would.

Four district officials committed adultery in the time we were there and one committed suicide. No one hardly ever called to see how we were doing. My pastor's wife has never called me, not one time since we left there. I wrote my pastor a long email one time and he said he would get back to me and never did. We had some other Home Missionary friends and they felt pretty much thrown to the dogs too. It wasn't just us.

I asked a pastor one time when we were having a home missions rally at his church if I could set up a fundraiser in the foyer. He would not let me. I realized only later that this was some political move on his part that I didn't understand.

We paid to pastor that Home Missions church. We poured our lives into it. We were only gaining in the sense that we fetl we were doing God's will and that was all. We did complain, but didn't really mind. We felt like Jesus' disciples. If we left there, where would we go? It was everything we had. And leaving meant possible hell-fire.

After some lawyers and meetings with the presbyter, we got the land and money back for the church. We put the land up for sale. After we left, an older minister took the church and the district paid the church off for them and said they could pay it back when the land sold. If they would have done that for us, it would have helped an awful lot.

We stayed there 5 years.

During this time a couple of the ladies I had ministeed to transferred to our church. One of them said her husband raped her and was on drugs and when she went to move out she asked a different denomination church to help her move. She felt like and outcast for getting a divorce. She eventually left the UPC. Another one left the UPC but got back in recently.

During this time, I asked three pastors wives to get together sometime. I told them I was lonely. All three said yes and then two backed out. One, was a very prominent woman and I ended up cleaning for her. She asked me if I wanted to go to a meeting with her and I said yes. We went and then, once we got there she seemed offended that I sat by her. I never did figure that one out. Is there some sort of unknown to me UPC etiquette that says not to sit by prominent people? A couple of years later, I had heard so many nasty evil rumors about one of the pastor's wives that I prayed if these things were not true that she would keep her promise to me about getting together. She called me three days later and we had coffee. That was the only time we got together. I aksed my pastor about this pastor and his wife and about the rumors. He said "I have something to tell you about that". And then he never did.

My mother-in-law got baptized and filled with the Holy Ghost at this church. We were growing slowly and had a nice little group. We worked hard to build this church and spent many hours passing our tracts, writing newsletters, teaching Bible studies etc.

[ILG]

Part 3

During the time we were in Home Missions, I began to study the Amish and Mennonite groups. I admired their....what seemed like consistency at the time. Standards issues were always at the back of my mind. I was ultra-conservative and believed in standards as salvational, as I was taught if you didn't do them, you would go to hell.

We we moved to the Home Missions church, I changed radically. My husband was my pastor now. I had more freedom. I began to understand that I was living under a toxic faith. I still believed everything I had been taught doctrinally, but I felt it was a twisted version of the truth. I began writing online and really fellowshipping with people online....something I never had in real life. This ended my terrible loneliness.

I had a dream about moving to my home state. It was so real I told my husband and we looked into it and he prayed about it. We ended up taking a church in my home state. I was so happy to be moving home.

When we got there my husband realized something was very wrong with the finances. For all the faults of my previous pastor, record keeping was not one of them. He was a stickler for keeping records, for showing them to the congregation every year. Everything was completely above board. Because of this, we were up on all the laws and knew things were amiss immediately. My husband called the district superintendent. The previous pastor had been a presbyter and his wife was prominent and this was not something the district sup wanted to hear. He told my husband to put together all the paperwork he had to present at a board meeting. When he arrived, the DS said they weren't going to look at it that day. It never came up again. My husband was ticked. There was $1900.00 in the bank when we arrived and the people were led to believe there was so much more. There had been a church split two years before we got there on finances and some of the people were already very staunch backers of the pastor, seeing they had been through this once already. Family members were split apart by this issue.

My husband was told to contact the previous pastor which he did and he would not take our phone calls. But, the board would do nothing. We tried different things different ways and still, they played dead.

Some of the people in the church thought my husband did something with the money, apparently, and they sued him and the church. For 18 months, we were harassed, followed, badgered. Someone smashed out the headlights and taillights on his truck. Someone drove by our house beeping their horn every night at 3:00 in the morning for weeks. One of the church buildings was broken into.

The district supported us on paper through the lawsuit, but we felt that if they would have done something in the first place it may not have come to what it did.

During this time I was still studying the Amish and answers on standards. One day, I realized it was all about principle and then, one day, I stepped into my prayer closet and came out a changed woman. I no longer believed in standards. I was ready to leave, but, my husband said he would fight to the finish because he would be vindicated. They ended up dropping the lawsuit eventually and our reputation in a new district with people we didn't know was in serious question because of all the rumors. At that point though, we were pretty much beyond caring.

However, I didn't leave because of pain or false accusations. I left because of a change in belief. People get it backwards. I didn't feel pain and then leave so I didn't have to face it. I faced my pain and then my belief changed and I saw clearly to leave.

We stayed for 2 years after the lawsuit was dropped to make sure that we were making the right choice. I believe we did and I am happy to be gone.

I know the UPC works for some people but I want people to know it doesn't work for everybody. Just because someone is not UPC and can't fit into the little box doesn't mean they are backslid or going to hell. It means they have a different view of things.

There is a whole lot more I could write, but that is enough for now. Someday, I may write a book about my experiences.