We're Not Putting X-Mas Trees Up!

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by nahkoe

I watch tv. And post on the internet. And a lot of other non-UC things. lol

And I won't have a Christmas tree.

Praise the Lord Nahkoe, I respect your convictions on the matter. I attended an ultra conservative church where Christmas trees were looked down upon. I have a question, while I respect your conviction regarding the Christmas tree...do you personally think or believe that those who put up the Christmas tree are pagans or Catholics?

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I can say the same for you.

I was raised in the Lord in a church that taught against Christmas trees. I get it.

[nahkoe]

Originally Posted by Antipas

Praise the Lord Nahkoe, I respect your convictions on the matter. I attended an ultra conservative church where Christmas trees were looked down upon. I have a question, while I respect your conviction regarding the Christmas tree...do you personally think or believe that those who put up the Christmas tree are pagans or Catholics?

I'm not ultra con, my convictions regarding a Christmas tree aren't coming from that perspective.

I think that anyone who can manage to find an internet forum and find the "new thread" or "reply" button is probably intelligent enough to make this decision for themselves. But, I think that a lot of people who would otherwise think things like this through, don't, due to the flames that get thrown around every year over this.

I don't usually say a whole lot because I know that my words wouldn't convince anyone, and that most likely they'd be read completely differently than I intend due to the already existing atmosphere here regarding this. I really hate when my words are read and someone inserts what they believe I'm saying just because of where I stand on something.

But, to answer your question. Do I think that those who put up a Christmas tree are pagan? No. I do, however, believe the Christmas tree is of pagan origin.

[OneAccord]

Christmas trees of pagan origin? Well, yes, it doesn't take a great deal of study to come to that conclusion. However, if we stop to think about it, there are a great number of things we do that orginate in pagan custom. There are objects scattered about in our homes that are of pagan and/or Catholic origin. So, while we rail gainst the evils of the Christmas tree, why do we take such a narrow view of what we stand against?

Steeples on churches. This is an enlightening study. If we learn where this custom came from, we mighe "rethink" the idea of church steeples.

Statuettes: Those little "what nots" scattered about your house. Graven Images, originally designed to "worship" the image of a person or thing.

Marriage/Funeral ceremony: No scripture for either. Pagan/Catholic origin.

Sunday worship: We all know who changed the Sabbath, now don't we?

So...are any of these things wrong? That depends. If we, celebrate, say Easter, is that wrong? Depends on why we celebrate it. To honor the Great Easter Bunny or some pagan god? Well, yes, that would be wrong. But to honor Christ and His resurrection? How can that be wrong? Do we put up the Christmas tree to worship Nimrod or some false god? Or do we recognize the Birth of Christ? Even though there is no Biblical precedence for recognizing His Birth, how can it be wrong to honor the Lord?

God looks at the intent of the heart. The question we have to ask ourselves is: "What is my intent in putting up a Christmas Tree?" To worship the Sungod, or whatever god the pagans worshipped.? That would be wrong. But if it is our intent to honor Christ, to promote family unity, to use the Christmas season to share the Gospel story with others, to give gifts, and provide for those in need, how can that be wrong? Church steeples... of pagan origin? Yes, but does that make it sinful to attach one to a church building? No, because the purpose (intent) of the church steeple has changed, just as the use of the Christmas tree has changed. Whether we are against Christmas trees, or for them, we have to ask ourselves, "What is my intent?" Sometimes we aren't even aware of out intent. But, I am assured of this: God knows the very intents of the heart.

[nahkoe]

Brother...you of all people should realize I would be nothing less than consistent.

I don't have graven images in my home.

I am preparing to attend church this morning.

As for marriage, reread the story of God's proposal to Israel. The offer and acceptance of the covenant is nothing less than a proposal of marriage. The Jewish wedding ceremony is still based off of this.

As for funerals, I haven't looked into that. I don't plan on attending any more though until I die and if I can avoid that one too I sure will. /tic

As for the pagan influence in Christian churches today, I won't go there. I just won't. Maybe someday I'll write something regarding that, but not today. I think I'd like to temper my own experience and opinion with much research and study. Suffice to say, I moved across country to attend a church with minimal pagan influence and it was very, very worth it to me.

(and in case anyone is wondering...I don't think those who worship in churches with pagan influence are worshiping pagan gods and goddesses, or any less in love with God than those more aware of the pagan influence and more apt to avoid it...I'm just saying it's there and it's pretty much impossible to escape at this point in history)

Originally Posted by OneAccord

Christmas trees of pagan origin? Well, yes, it doesn't take a great deal of study to come to that conclusion. However, if we stop to think about it, there are a great number of things we do that orginate in pagan custom. There are objects scattered about in our homes that are of pagan and/or Catholic origin. So, while we rail gainst the evils of the Christmas tree, why do we take such a narrow view of what we stand against?

Steeples on churches. This is an enlightening study. If we learn where this custom came from, we mighe "rethink" the idea of church steeples.

Statuettes: Those little "what nots" scattered about your house. Graven Images, originally designed to "worship" the image of a person or thing.

Marriage/Funeral ceremony: No scripture for either. Pagan/Catholic origin.

Sunday worship: We all know who changed the Sabbath, now don't we?

So...are any of these things wrong? That depends. If we, celebrate, say Easter, is that wrong? Depends on why we celebrate it. To honor the Great Easter Bunny or some pagan god? Well, yes, that would be wrong. But to honor Christ and His resurrection? How can that be wrong? Do we put up the Christmas tree to worship Nimrod or some false god? Or do we recognize the Birth of Christ? Even though there is no Biblical precedence for recognizing His Birth, how can it be wrong to honor the Lord?

God looks at the intent of the heart. The question we have to ask ourselves is: "What is my intent in putting up a Christmas Tree?" To worship the Sungod, or whatever god the pagans worshipped.? That would be wrong. But if it is our intent to honor Christ, to promote family unity, to use the Christmas season to share the Gospel story with others, to give gifts, and provide for those in need, how can that be wrong? Church steeples... of pagan origin? Yes, but does that make it sinful to attach one to a church building? No, because the purpose (intent) of the church steeple has changed, just as the use of the Christmas tree has changed. Whether we are against Christmas trees, or for them, we have to ask ourselves, "What is my intent?" Sometimes we aren't even aware of out intent. But, I am assured of this: God knows the very intents of the heart.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Antipas

Praise the Lord Nahkoe, I respect your convictions on the matter. I attended an ultra conservative church where Christmas trees were looked down upon. I have a question, while I respect your conviction regarding the Christmas tree...do you personally think or believe that those who put up the Christmas tree are pagans or Catholics?

I have NOT called anyone pagan or Catholic however since I am NOT Catholic why practice Catholicism?

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by OneAccord

Christmas trees of pagan origin? Well, yes, it doesn't take a great deal of study to come to that conclusion. However, if we stop to think about it, there are a great number of things we do that orginate in pagan custom. There are objects scattered about in our homes that are of pagan and/or Catholic origin. So, while we rail gainst the evils of the Christmas tree, why do we take such a narrow view of what we stand against?

Steeples on churches. This is an enlightening study. If we learn where this custom came from, we mighe "rethink" the idea of church steeples.

Statuettes: Those little "what nots" scattered about your house. Graven Images, originally designed to "worship" the image of a person or thing.

Marriage/Funeral ceremony: No scripture for either. Pagan/Catholic origin.

Sunday worship: We all know who changed the Sabbath, now don't we?

So...are any of these things wrong? That depends. If we, celebrate, say Easter, is that wrong? Depends on why we celebrate it. To honor the Great Easter Bunny or some pagan god? Well, yes, that would be wrong. But to honor Christ and His resurrection? How can that be wrong? Do we put up the Christmas tree to worship Nimrod or some false god? Or do we recognize the Birth of Christ? Even though there is no Biblical precedence for recognizing His Birth, how can it be wrong to honor the Lord?

God looks at the intent of the heart. The question we have to ask ourselves is: "What is my intent in putting up a Christmas Tree?" To worship the Sungod, or whatever god the pagans worshipped.? That would be wrong. But if it is our intent to honor Christ, to promote family unity, to use the Christmas season to share the Gospel story with others, to give gifts, and provide for those in need, how can that be wrong? Church steeples... of pagan origin? Yes, but does that make it sinful to attach one to a church building? No, because the purpose (intent) of the church steeple has changed, just as the use of the Christmas tree has changed. Whether we are against Christmas trees, or for them, we have to ask ourselves, "What is my intent?" Sometimes we aren't even aware of out intent. But, I am assured of this: God knows the very intents of the heart.

1. Steeples I agree
2. Statuettes if they are religious I agree
3. Jews has a long history of funeral type services
4. the early church met on the first day of the week the Sabbath was NIT changed but fulfilled.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

1. Steeples I agree
2. Statuettes if they are religious I agree
3. Jews has a long history of funeral type services
4. the early church met on the first day of the week the Sabbath was NOT changed but fulfilled.

Indeed Brother Epley...

Also the reason they met on the first day of the week was, quite possibly, for the benefit of those who did still observe the sabbath day above another day because travel/labor restrictions etc on those who continued to observe the OT sabbath would have made it hard to gather in homes and have fellowship.

Meeting on the day following sabbath would have been a good move to help circumvent these issues in deference to their brethren who continued in the sabbath observation.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by nahkoe

Brother...you of all people should realize I would be nothing less than consistent.

I don't have graven images in my home.

I am preparing to attend church this morning.

As for marriage, reread the story of God's proposal to Israel. The offer and acceptance of the covenant is nothing less than a proposal of marriage. The Jewish wedding ceremony is still based off of this.

As for funerals, I haven't looked into that. I don't plan on attending any more though until I die and if I can avoid that one too I sure will. /tic

As for the pagan influence in Christian churches today, I won't go there. I just won't. Maybe someday I'll write something regarding that, but not today. I think I'd like to temper my own experience and opinion with much research and study. Suffice to say, I moved across country to attend a church with minimal pagan influence and it was very, very worth it to me.

(and in case anyone is wondering...I don't think those who worship in churches with pagan influence are worshiping pagan gods and goddesses, or any less in love with God than those more aware of the pagan influence and more apt to avoid it...I'm just saying it's there and it's pretty much impossible to escape at this point in history)

Hey sis...

Having walked the paths that you have walked... do you think that you find yourself more... or less... sensitive to these influences being seen in the church?

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Indeed Brother Epley...

Also the reason they met on the first day of the week was, quite possibly, for the benefit of those who did still observe the sabbath day above another day because travel/labor restrictions etc on those who continued to observe the OT sabbath would have made it hard to gather in homes and have fellowship.

Meeting on the day following sabbath would have been a good move to help circumvent these issues in deference to their brethren who continued in the sabbath observation.

That has been my thought on the reason also Digger. It sure makes sense