What A Mess!

[TRFrance]

I wonder sometimes... if people on this forum were to use their real names instead of being able to hide behind "usernames", is it possible there would be less blatant rudeness on AFF?

Just wondering.

[Ron]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

I wonder sometimes... if people on this forum were to use their real names instead of being able to hide behind "usernames", is it possible there would be less blatant rudeness on AFF?

Just wondering.

I hope I haven't been rude, at least not intentionally.

My name is real!

[Light]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

I wonder sometimes... if people on this forum were to use their real names instead of being able to hide behind "usernames", is it possible there would be less blatant rudeness on AFF?

Just wondering.

Br I don't mind giving my name at all. Change the rules so that all posters use their name. It could be a good thing it might slow down some of the idiotoutic post.

Rudeness is in the eye of the beholder sometimes. It seem one group of people can say what they want and it is ok because you may agree with them. Another that you don't see eye to eye with is rude and hateful.

[Light]

Originally Posted by Ferd

Light, please see my other post here. I dont want to seem to be just bashing unions but I did some checking.

considering both wages and benifits, the big three auto makers pay somewhere between $70.00 per hour and $75.00 per hour.

The Japanese Automakers operating factories in the USA are paying about $48.00 per hour.

Now we can agree that they arent paying union wages. and we can agree that they located their plants in places where they can avoid their shops being unionized.

But where we dont agree is if that is fare or not. $48.00 per hour works out to be about $99,000 bucks a year without any overtime. AND these plants are often located in places where the average salrey is far below that (Like between $20K per year and $40K per year).

So the workers now making $99K this isnt a bad thing for sure. Plus Autoworkers working in these Japanese plants arent worried about their jobs being cut.

Now on the managment side, a year ago, while GM was losing money Toyota made 13 billion bucks.

http://www.gmforum.com/online/t12137/

Ferd your post have been as usual very sensible. There is something that you may be overlooking. When I mentioned that workers here were being paid $8.00 per hr. someone said if I didn't like it negotiate a better wage or get another job. So I ask you this: the men and women that negotiated a retirement contract with the big three years ago, what are they supposed to do? Should they be paid their retirement or not?

Today on Fox it was reported the cost for retirement was $200.00 per unit.

The problem is not because of wages but because the big three didn't build a good product and that is not the workers fault.

About 7 years ago I talked with a Mexican man who worked for GM just across the border. He said his pay was $32.00 a day yet the parts he made when sold to the consumer did not reflect his lower wage.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Ferd

Light, please see my other post here. I dont want to seem to be just bashing unions. but I did some checking.

considering both wages and benifits, the big three auto makers pay somewhere between $70.00 per hour and $75.00 per hour.

The Japanese Automakers operating factories in the USA are paying about $48.00 per hour.

Now we can agree that they arent paying union wages. and we can agree that they located their plants in places where they can avoid their shops being unionized.

But where we dont agree is if that is fare or not. $48.00 per hour works out to be about $99,000 bucks a year without any overtime. AND these plants are often located in places where the average salrey is far below that (Like between $20K per year and $40K per year).

So the workers now making $99K this isnt a bad thing for sure. Plus Autoworkers working in these Japanese plants arent worried about their jobs being cut.

Now on the managment side, a year ago, while GM was losing money Toyota made 13 billion bucks.

http://www.gmforum.com/online/t12137/

These wages that you list include all overhead and benefits for the workers, as well, correct?

In other words, the employee doesn't get that as an hourly wage.

[Esther]

Originally Posted by Ron

Okay, let's say for arguments sake that the New World Order & the coming of the Lord is a way off in the distance & we are stuck here to "eke" out an existence until Jesus returns, We are still in a mess!!!!

Talk on the talk radio is about the big three Auto Makers & thier struggle to keep out of Chapter 11!

Speculation now is that Congress & the Canadian Parliament will let them go into Chapter 11, restructure, & then look for somebody to come along and get it at a fire sale cost, & buyers will relocate those plants overseas.

What does that mean?

1. 2-3 million direct & indirect jobs will be gone.
2. Pensions (including benefits which are some of the best in North America) will be gone!
3. Who will be able to afford cars if we all work at 7-11?

We are in serious times where I believe we will pray for the coming of the Lord!

I'm confused Ron what does the Canadian Parliament have to do with the US car manufacturers?

[Ron]

Originally Posted by Esther

I'm confused Ron what does the Canadian Parliament have to do with the US car manufacturers?

80% of all of the cars built in Canada are for export to the States!
We have huge plants in Ontario & Quebec.
I think the reason there is a majority of Cars that have been moved to Ontario many years ago was because of our Universal Health Care.

Also, GM, Ford, & Chrysler, although they are American companies, they also need assistance to keep the plants open in Canada!

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

I wonder sometimes... if people on this forum were to use their real names instead of being able to hide behind "usernames", is it possible there would be less blatant rudeness on AFF?

Just wondering.

Probably not. I do think that with the anonymity of the internet, the real character comes out of some.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Ron

80% of all of the cars built in Canada are for export to the States!
We have huge plants in Ontario & Quebec.
I think the reason there is a majority of Cars that have been moved to Ontario many years ago was because of our Universal Health Care.

Also, GM, Ford, & Chrysler, although they are American companies, they also need assistance to keep the plants open in Canada!

When I was in the automotive engineering biz, before I came to the cereal biz, I spent a good bit of time in St. Thomas, Ontario at the Ford plant.

Only plant in North America where they made Crown Victorias and Grand Marquis'.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by cneasttx

Probably not. I do think that with the anonymity of the internet, the real character comes out of some.

I think you may be quite right about that, Cindy.

I have no problem with people choosing not to use their own names, but I do notice that some of the rudest posts are from those who use "anonymous" usernames. I even noticed one person in particular who always seemed fairly civil when he used his real name on the forum, but once he switched to one of his other usernames , he was sometimes just outright insulting and nasty. (Very few people here knew that it was him under the new name.)

It reminds me of what I once heard a preacher say: "your true character is who you are when nobody's looking".