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  #41  
Old 11-08-2008, 08:12 AM
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Re: Elections Foreshadow the Antichrist

Quote:
Originally Posted by TK Burk View Post
(Daniel 9:27) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

No offense, but where does the above say what you're claiming?
David Icke? Anyone been reading his foolishness? Maybe Obama and Sarah Palin are shape shifters?
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  #42  
Old 11-08-2008, 08:27 AM
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Re: Elections Foreshadow the Antichrist

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Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
can we please not make this a 70AD debate? pretty please with sugar on top?


Deac, I agree....
Fred come on Brother, you agree with what? What is there to agree with?
88 reasons that Christ will return in 1988? Brother I thought futurists believed Saddam Hussain was the Antichrist? What was the name of that book? Babylon Rising? I believe the chap was Ed Hinson?

Anyway, Lord bless you and your wonderful family.

Love

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Brother Benincasa

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  #43  
Old 11-08-2008, 08:32 AM
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Re: Elections Foreshadow the Antichrist

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Originally Posted by DividedThigh View Post
db i agree with you about bho and his charismatic appeal to the weak of mind, no doubt, dt
DT, no doubt?
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  #44  
Old 11-08-2008, 08:36 AM
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Re: Elections Foreshadow the Antichrist

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Originally Posted by TRFrance View Post
Interesting wording by the Italian Prime Minister:

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi gave an enthusiastic, if unconventional, welcome on Thursday to the election of Barack Obama, citing among his attributes youth, good looks and a "suntan."

Speaking at a joint news conference with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev in Moscow, the 72-year-old media tycoon also said Obama's election to the White House had been "hailed by world public opinion as the arrival of a messiah."


http://uk.reuters.com/article/worldN...4A562120081106
TRF, when they say messiah it's not the same as when we or the Rabbis say Messiah.

Mes·si·ah (m-s)
n.
1. also Mes·si·as (m-ss) The anticipated savior of the Jews.
2. also Messias Christianity Jesus.
3. messiah One who is anticipated as, regarded as, or professes to be a savior or liberator.


With respect, and with appreciation towards you

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

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  #45  
Old 11-08-2008, 08:39 AM
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Re: Elections Foreshadow the Antichrist

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Originally Posted by Digging4Truth View Post
These assertions are things that we have heard so often that they, in and of themselves, have become scripture in the minds of many people.

These are assertions with no scriptural basis except for a willy nilly application of a piece of a scripture here and a piece of a scripture there tied together with one "experts" interpretation after another.

The interpretations themselves hold as much clout as the actual holy writ.

What you are asking is "Can we please let these unscriptural assertions go without anybody pointing out that these concepts that the Antichrist is going to do this, or do that, or be this person or be that person are not found in scripture."

This is one of the reasons that the trinity doctine is so pervasive. If people had to form their doctrine strictly on what the Bible does say there would be far less error.
Hooray, hooray, hooray! The voice of reason! Great Job! Good post!

Now that's wonderful. D4T has laid it all out! Bravo!

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

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  #46  
Old 11-08-2008, 09:04 AM
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Re: Elections Foreshadow the Antichrist

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Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
Look bro. I got no issue with you asking for chapter and verse... good for you....


I just get tired head when I see these kind of things devolve into a perterist/pre trib debate....
Ferd, I love you Brother. Now just why shouldn't it become a discussion?
Here is a thread discussing that the elections foreshadow the antichrist.
So wouldn't it be reasonable for us who are involved in the Apostolic Pentecostal Church to ask questions concerning this topic?
Barrak Obama the antichrist? I remember when they said Reagan was the antichrist. Even Richard Nixon! Come on Brother, that stuff gets old.
Bad eschatology turns into boorish discussions, which border on scary bedtime stories that only frighten children and housewives.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
those are fine in context. you might even from time to time see me play along... and for the record, I am decidedly undecided on escatology in general. so im not taking this position to shut people up...
Cool, and we are just coming into the discussion to ask questions on why, and how do people even entertain these ideas? Why every time we have historic current events they in some round about way are connected to Bible Eschatology? They hold dear to them even when the scripture is taken so much out of context. Why must we give Bill Maher comedic script material?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
ask for your scripture... if given fine, if not you made your point..... but lets please keep the deep waters in the deep waters and let us political junkies be free to lament at our leasure!

Peace..... (and safety)
Don't mix politics and religion? Brother, aren't you all doing that?

Love you

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Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com
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  #47  
Old 11-08-2008, 09:17 AM
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Re: Elections Foreshadow the Antichrist

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Originally Posted by CareyM View Post
Great thoughts DB! I really do feel that with Obama elected as our president that we are closer than ever to the second coming of Jesus.
During the end of 999 AD, there were Roman Catholics who felt that the soon coming year of 1000 AD, they were moving towards the second coming of Christ. During the Black Plague of Europe thousands were dying. Whole entire towns wiped out. Clergy laying dead in the street to be piled on top of carts that were used to haul off the dead. During that time ideas abounded on thoughts of Christ's return. They were....wrong.

Those times that I mentioned had two important things in common. They had no Bibles to the common man, and they were dominated by Catholic Eschatology. Bad Religion just causes anxiety, and un needed fears.

Lord bless you

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com
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  #48  
Old 11-08-2008, 09:22 AM
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Re: Elections Foreshadow the Antichrist

Quote:
Originally Posted by deacon blues View Post
I wont get into all the preterist debate stuff. I will say that Daniel 9:27 speaks of a covenant that is for one week (week of years = 7 years). It says the AC will confirm that covenant. It then references that in the midst of the week he causes the sacrifices and oblations to cease, inferring that the covenant is related to the rebuilt Temple and the return of animal sacrifices in Jerusalem.

The Jews are already prepared to rebuild it. Check out www.thetempleinstitute.com they have everything ready, even prefabricating the Temple so they can quickly construct it. Priests are trained and ready for sacrifices and Temple worship.

If a peace treaty could be signed between Israel and the Palestinians and have decisions contained within related to sharing the Temple Mount and allowing Israel to build a Temple, that would be a significant prophetic fulfillment. Anyone negotiating with Israel and the Palestinians will have to address this issue. The AC will be the one who does it.


Is it possible that the AC could be the AC and he or she no even know it?

So many U.S. Presidents and envoys have pursued peace between the Palestinians and the Jews.

I can fathom President Obama being one to bring this kind of a "peace accord". I believe he could be driven to pursue this and then be successful with his efforts.

A Christian politician who carried favor with the Muslims because of his name and how they perceive him could be instrumental in bringing a significant peace accord.

It would be a magnificent feat, that so many have failed at. President Obama could really be successful here.
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  #49  
Old 11-08-2008, 03:35 PM
deacon blues deacon blues is offline
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Re: Elections Foreshadow the Antichrist

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Originally Posted by TK Burk View Post
Yes He did! You find this same occurance mentioned in Daniel 9:24.

Daniel 9:24
(24) Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Some scholars feel this word "reconciliation" should have been "atonement" instead. That really doesn't matter since they both mean "to bring into agreement or harmony; make compatible or consistent." Since the fall of Adam, mankind has been born into this world with a nature to sin. Such sin makes man a natural-born enemy with his Creator. To change this status and to regain a close relationship with their Creator, mankind needed an atonement that could reconcile their nature back with God's. The blood of Jesus was that atoning sacrifice that brought mankind that opportunity, for His sacrifice brought to man a new nature that was not born after their natural father Adam, but rather one born after their heavenly Father Jesus!

Notice in these verses how "atonement" and "reconciliation" are spoken of as taking place at Calvary, and was now made available to all through the gospel message.

Romans 5:8-11
(8) But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
(9) Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
(10) For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
(11) And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Colossians 1:20, 21
(20) And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
(21) And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

2 Corinthians 5:17-20
(17) Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
(18) And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
(19) To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
(20) Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Hebrews 2:17
(17) Wherefore in all things it behooved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

In his notable commentary, Adam Clarke indicates that Jesus fulfilled the requirements for biblical "atonement" and "reconciliation."
Adam Clarke's Commentary on the BibleTo make reconciliation (ulechapper, "to make atonement or expiation") for iniquity; which he did by the once offering up of himself.
Colossians 2:14
(14) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

In the next comments, Earl L Henn (1934-1997) offers a great explanation as to what Paul meant by "handwriting of ordinances." The following are Henn's words:
"In their struggle to find a New Testament scripture that supports their misconception that God's law is ‘done away,' antinomians point to Colossians 2:14 to 'prove' that Christ nailed the law of God to the cross. Proponents of such a teaching say that the ‘handwriting of requirements [ordinances, KJV]' refers to the law ‘that was against us.' They further claim that Christ ‘took it out of the way' or abolished the law.
The phrase ‘handwriting of requirements' is translated from the Greek phrase cheirographon tois dogmasin. Cheirographon means anything written by hand, but can more specifically apply to a legal document, bond, or note of debt. Dogmasin refers to decrees, laws, or ordinances, and in this context means a body of beliefs or practices that have become the guidelines governing a person's conduct or way of life.

What Paul is saying is that, BY HIS DEATH, CHRIST HAS JUSTIFIED US—BROUGHT US INTO ALIGNMENT WITH HIS LAW—AND WIPED OUT THE NOTE OF GUILT OR DEBT THAT WE OWED AS A RESULT OF OUR SINS. Before repentance, our lives had been governed by the standards and values of this present, evil world—the ‘decrees, laws and ordinance' of the society in which we lived. AFTER REPENTANCE AND ACCEPTANCE OF CHRIST, WE EMBARK ON A NEW WAY OF LIFE AND LIVE BY GOD'S STANDARDS AND VALUES. CONSEQUENTLY, GOD WIPES OUT THE DEBT WE ACQUIRED AS A RESULT OF OUR SINS AND IMPUTES RIGHTEOUSNESS TO US.

Also notice that the phrase 'handwriting of requirements' restates the phrase immediately before it. ‘Having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us' parallels ‘having forgiven you all trespasses.' Thus, Paul could not be referring to the law itself but rather to the record of our transgression of that law—sin!

The last sentence in verse 14 reads: 'And He has taken it out of the way...' In this sentence, the word 'it' is a singular pronoun and refers back to the singular word 'handwriting.' 'Requirements' could not be its antecedent because 'requirements' is plural. So, some kind of handwriting—a note, a record, or a citation—was affixed to the cross.

Historically, only two objects were nailed to the stake of crucifixion: 1) the condemned person and 2) an inscription naming the crimes for which he was being punished. Thus, when Jesus was crucified, only His body and Pilate's inscription ('This is Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews'; see Matthew 27:37; Mark 15:26; Luke 23:38; John 19:19) were nailed to the cross. Normally, the inscription would be more accusative, saying something like, 'This is Jesus of Nazareth, who rebelled against Caesar.' Pilate's complimentary inscription replaced the customary note or record of guilt—the 'handwriting of requirements' that would have been found nailed to the crosses of the two malefactors crucified with Him.

Just before He died, when He said the Father forsook Him (Matthew 27:46), our sins were symbolically nailed to the cross in His body. 'Who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed' (I Peter 2:24). At the time of His crucifixion, Jesus Christ became sin for us. ‘For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him' (II Corinthians 5:21). Our note of debt that we owed God as a result of our sins is what was 'taken out of the way' and 'nailed . . to the cross."

It is easy to see this point is not referring to a coming 7-year tribulation where the breaking of a covenant by some antichrist causes animal sacrifices to cease; but is instead referring to Jesus Christ's death on Calvary, which satisfied man's payment for sin and offered him a way to walk in close fellowship with his God. Jesus' sacrifice stopped animal sacrifices from being acceptable to God, since there is now no scriptural reason for them to ever occur again. Jesus' sacrifice also occurred 3½ years into His ministry, which fits perfectly the description of the cutting off in the midst of Daniel's final 70th week (See Daniel 9:27).
Where in the Bible does it say Jesus had a 3 1/2 ministry? I know it is commonly referred to, but I've never been able to find conclusive evidence for that.

In light of your interpretation of Daniel 9:27, what is the "week"?
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  #50  
Old 11-08-2008, 04:09 PM
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Re: Elections Foreshadow the Antichrist

Interesting remark by an Australian journalist who's taking a lot of heat for some racist comments on Obama:

But Emmerich himself voiced no regret. On the contrary, he even took a harder line in subsequent interviews. Obama's victory was an "extremely disconcerting development" he told the Austrian Standard on Wednesday, because "blacks aren't as politically civilized." Meanwhile, he told Die Presse in an interview published on Friday that Obama has "a devil-like talent to present his rhetoric so effectively."

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...589035,00.html
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