If anyone else is as confused as I am about what you're really asking, no kidding.
I've felt like I've *almost* understood what you're getting at a few times, and then it just escapes me. It's why I've stayed out of it.
How many times do I have to explain this, there are at least 5 posts in which I explain this. I am sorry if I seem flustered but I am being very clear about this.
There are two beliefs (at the foundation) of which pertain to how people are saved (I guess that kind of explains it, but I feel I could word that better), I don't care about this at all (for the purpose of this thread). So please if you want to argue about this go to another thread or start one. However, the significance of your belief plays a role as to whether or not you should participate. If you are Calvinist then your belief in predestination automatically creates a paradox in which means you cannot answer this question properly.
So, the question is, to those that believe in free will or at least autonomy from the will of God.
How much of your free will is predicated by a biological function?
An example would be this:
Ever tried to not eat carbohydrates? You get extremely frustrated, tired and you crave carbohydrates. You salivate more when carbohydrates are placed in front of you etc. Is this because you chose to like carbohydrates or because you need them?
You might argue that you are going against a biological drive by not eating them, but then the question of a social factor comes into play. You don't eat carbohydrates for a day or two and someone gives you a compliment, so you try not to eat carbohydrates. That social reinforcement in the form of a compliment is also serving a function.
I can explain the question all day but I think it's clear, you either get it or you don't.
Explain why you think you agree or disagree with those statements... if this helps people understand what I am asking.
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See, I've never been looking at it from a salvation point of view. I've been applying it to other things, but then it keeps coming back to salvation..even *you* bring it back (see post below this?) and then I'm stuck trying to figure out what you mean.
Now, if you're just asking what I think you are now...I really do lean towards all choice. I choose to eat. But, then again I've had an eating disorder where I chose not to eat. So maybe it's more obvious for me than others who feel they *need* to eat. Sure, in order to function well you need to eat, but whether or not you eat is still a choice made. Ditto sleep. I make a choice to sleep, and sleep enough. I have gone times without making that choice though, it's not so good for my body, but it's still always been my choice to make.
Quote:
Originally Posted by clgustaveson
How many times do I have to explain this, there are at least 5 posts in which I explain this. I am sorry if I seem flustered but I am being very clear about this.
There are two beliefs (at the foundation) of which pertain to how people are saved (I guess that kind of explains it, but I feel I could word that better), I don't care about this at all (for the purpose of this thread). So please if you want to argue about this go to another thread or start one. However, the significance of your belief plays a role as to whether or not you should participate. If you are Calvinist then your belief in predestination automatically creates a paradox in which means you cannot answer this question properly.
So, the question is, to those that believe in free will or at least autonomy from the will of God.
How much of your free will is predicated by a biological function?
An example would be this:
Ever tried to not eat carbohydrates? You get extremely frustrated, tired and you crave carbohydrates. You salivate more when carbohydrates are placed in front of you etc. Is this because you chose to like carbohydrates or because you need them?
You might argue that you are going against a biological drive by not eating them, but then the question of a social factor comes into play. You don't eat carbohydrates for a day or two and someone gives you a compliment, so you try not to eat carbohydrates. That social reinforcement in the form of a compliment is also serving a function.
I can explain the question all day but I think it's clear, you either get it or you don't.
Explain why you think you agree or disagree with those statements... if this helps people understand what I am asking.
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You become free from who you have become, by becoming who you were meant to be. ~Mark from another forum I post on
God did it for us. Out of sheer generosity he put us in right standing with himself. A pure gift. He got us out of the mess we're in and restored us to where he always wanted us to be. And he did it by means of Jesus Christ. ~Romans 3:24 from The Message
See, I've never been looking at it from a salvation point of view. I've been applying it to other things, but then it keeps coming back to salvation..even *you* bring it back (see post below this?) and then I'm stuck trying to figure out what you mean.
Now, if you're just asking what I think you are now...I really do lean towards all choice. I choose to eat. But, then again I've had an eating disorder where I chose not to eat. So maybe it's more obvious for me than others who feel they *need* to eat. Sure, in order to function well you need to eat, but whether or not you eat is still a choice made. Ditto sleep. I make a choice to sleep, and sleep enough. I have gone times without making that choice though, it's not so good for my body, but it's still always been my choice to make.
I only bring it back to salvation because that is where a paradox would start. Example: Calvinist joins.... God predestined everything... game over.
You have to have an exception to prove a rule right?
Maladaptive behavior AKA disorders prove most behaviors serve a function. But even a maladaptive behavior like an eating disorder serves a function, you can't assume that one need is more important than another. Some people value health over looks, other value looks over health, it just so happens that whichever you value more tends to be a huge factor in the decisions you make. This is why people like Carl Rogers er on the side of 'unconditional positive regard'.
Do agree with that?
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"I only bring it back to salvation because that is where a paradox would start. Example: Calvinist joins.... God predestined everything... game over."
I have not read all the post but I do believe in mans free will. We can serve God or not serve God. He does not hold a gun to my head and say you will serve me. I serve him because I have seen what he has done for me and others. Where he brought me from. I serve him because I LOVE HIM. Not that I'm scared of him or what will happen if I don't. If I chose not to serve him I know there is a price to pay and I'll have to pay it.
I do not believe in predestination as in God has chosen me (Jimmy), that I'm headed to hell and you (clgustaveson) are headed to heaven and nothing can change it.
The only predestination I can beleive in is that the children of God has a home waiting for them. If you serve him according to his word then you have a place in heaven. If that is predestination then yes I beleive in it.
I'll go back and try to catch up on all the post.
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"I only bring it back to salvation because that is where a paradox would start. Example: Calvinist joins.... God predestined everything... game over."
I have not read all the post but I do believe in mans free will. We can serve God or not serve God. He does not hold a gun to my head and say you will serve me. I serve him because I have seen what he has done for me and others. Where he brought me from. I serve him because I LOVE HIM. Not that I'm scared of him or what will happen if I don't. If I chose not to serve him I know there is a price to pay and I'll have to pay it.
I do not believe in predestination as in God has chosen me (Jimmy), that I'm headed to hell and you (clgustaveson) are headed to heaven and nothing can change it.
The only predestination I can beleive in is that the children of God has a home waiting for them. If you serve him according to his word then you have a place in heaven. If that is predestination then yes I beleive in it.
I'll go back and try to catch up on all the post.
If God know all things BEFORE anything was created can we do anything but what He already knows will come to pass? His very knowledge(that was before anything was created) assure that whatever He knows will come to pass.......
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If God know all things BEFORE anything was created can we do anything but what He already knows will come to pass? His very knowledge(that was before anything was created) assure that whatever He knows will come to pass.......
But not what he willed.... can we NOT get into this?
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If God know all things BEFORE anything was created can we do anything but what He already knows will come to pass? His very knowledge(that was before anything was created) assure that whatever He knows will come to pass.......
Dave forget it they don't want any interlopers like you and I. If you can make head or tails of this discussion then you are the elect and I am the left out.
Dave forget it they don't want any interlopers like you and I. If you can make head or tails of this discussion then you are the elect and I am the left out.
To be a part of this discussion all I ask is that you are not Calvinist.
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