Ray Boltz????

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

I do not see Mich as a reprobate ...

You are entitled to an opinion, Praxeas ... even when it's not said in love.

I never said she or anyone else was reprobate. I simply defined terms and I attached no emotion to it, so your passive aggressive accusation about it not being said in love is wrong.

I can address issues matter of factly without getting emotionally involved. Can you? Someone operating on subjective emotions is not qualified to make a determination of factual truth until they start being objective

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Mich, it's not you being here for a while and someone poking you. It's how you start out.

Well, it's not necessarily that anyone purposely pokes me (though it happens from time to time), but sometimes I just walk into the big stick.

Can you give me some examples? With the exception of today, I haven't really posted much in the last few months, between being the sole caregiver for my Mom following her Triple Bypass Surgery, and going through a divorce at the same time, I haven't had much time for posting.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Michlow

It depends again on what you mean by "the faith". Do I believe in God? Yes. Do I believe that Jesus is God? yes. Do I believe in Salvation by faith alone in Jesus Christ alone? Yeeeessss..... (That was me kind of wavering on that one...because whereas I believe it, at the same time, I have a hard time casting anyone into hell for any reason, or deciding who is or is not saved).

But I have issues with the Bible, with Church, and with most theology, doctrine and traditions.

Now one could say that I am still working through my issues, or one could say that I have completely walked away. Again, all a matter of perspective.



Berk, it doesn't bother me in the least. I have in fact used the word as a description of myself in the past. By Prax's definition, I AM a reprobate. (though according to my beliefs, I obviously am not )

You said some say you are backslidden. I simply defined backslidden and reprobate. Two terms used often.

But if you want to examine this. Do you believe the bible is the inspired word of God? All of it or just portions?

I don't consider someone backslidden just because they no longer claim to be Oneness in doctrine. That is absurd. A backslidder is someone living in sin, unrepented sins

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Michlow

Well, it's not necessarily that anyone purposely pokes me (though it happens from time to time), but sometimes I just walk into the big stick.

Can you give me some examples? With the exception of today, I haven't really posted much in the last few months, between being the sole caregiver for my Mom following her Triple Bypass Surgery, and going through a divorce at the same time, I haven't had much time for posting.

With the exception of today? lol...well I don't have that kind of time to go through all your other posts.

As I said you use humor to me as a passive aggressive...and more specifically towards people here of other faiths. I suppose they get tired of it and just don't read your posts anymore...

And for that matter, Mr "I post everything in love" Alicea has the same passive aggressive behavior, though often his is less passive.

There are a lot of members and former members that just tune him out now...not because of doctrine but because of HOW he chooses to discuss it

Love ya Dan and Mich

[nahkoe]

Originally Posted by Michlow

Just out of curiousity...who says that he has given up? From what I read in the article it doesn't appear that he has given up on God, or Christianity. (Which brings to mind the previous threads on Christian Garrett).

Using my own personal definition, he's given up. If you pursue something, work towards it, try, and then quit, you've given up. For some reason, at this point in his life, he's chosen to quit fighting this battle. There's no judgment for that Mich, we all make choices along those lines, pick our battles, etc. But I know if you believe it's wrong for years and years, even if you change your mind it's hard to work through the emotions around it. That's where a lot of my empathy is addressed right now.

I've already stated I don't believe homosexuality and a relationship with God to be mutually exclusive. I don't believe one has to give up on God when they give up on something else they held as true at one point. I hope he doesn't give up on God, but I do know how quickly things went that direction for me. I also know God is faithful and has the final say in all of this anyhow. I also can't presume to know where he is in regards to giving up on God Himself. Even if he has, or if he does in the future (or anyone else for that matter!), that's still not the final say in the matter. God alone has that.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Backsliders generally know they are backslidden and don't deny the faith, they just are not living it. Those that deny the faith are reprobates
I consider Mich to be reprobate concerning the faith, not backslidden

Opps, I did say she was reprobate lol.

however I need to qualify it as reprobate concerning the faith. That has a certain meaning to it. And I could be wrong but as she says she is a dry sense of humor. Maybe some of the things she has said in the past was just her trying to yank someone's chain. So I could be wrong, but I don't necessarily believe she is backslidden either. That's my point

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

You said some say you are backslidden. I simply defined backslidden and reprobate. Two terms used often.

But if you want to examine this. Do you believe the bible is the inspired word of God? All of it or just portions?

I don't consider someone backslidden just because they no longer claim to be Oneness in doctrine. That is absurd. A backslidder is someone living in sin, unrepented sins

I made a response to Amos this morning somewhere on this thread about my opinions about the Bible...but to make it simple...No, I don't believe the Bible to be "inspired word of God".

I don't consider myself to be "living in sin". Unless you consider not attending church, having issues with the Bible, watching TV, and not following standards to be sin. Oh, and I swear like a sailor. (But I don't take the Lord's name in vain).

I consider myself to be a liberal (ultra by the definations here), Progressive, emergent, post-modern, feminist Christian. But I DO still consider myself a Christian. And consider my life a faith-journey.

[Praxeas]

Or you can even say heretical concerning the faith....for most of the OPs that might be our faith. Trinitarians say we are heretical concerning thei faith, for them that is Trinitarian faith

It's not about being mean or not loving. It's just more accurate designation than just calling someone backslidden

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Michlow

I made a response to Amos this morning somewhere on this thread about my opinions about the Bible...but to make it simple...No, I don't believe the Bible to be "inspired word of God".

I don't consider myself to be "living in sin". Unless you consider not attending church, having issues with the Bible, watching TV, and not following standards to be sin. Oh, and I swear like a sailor. (But I don't take the Lord's name in vain).

I consider myself to be a liberal (ultra by the definations here), Progressive, emergent, post-modern, feminist Christian. But I DO still consider myself a Christian. And consider my life a faith-journey.

See that is my point. I don't think the issue is living in sin. I never said you were living in sin.

[U376977]

Originally Posted by nahkoe

Because I don't think that giving up is a real good way to deal with life. It bothers me that he's reached a point where this is the choice he's made. Mostly because I know what the journey back has been like for me. And there's always the chance he won't make that journey back.

What I can understand is feeling hopeless, exhausted, out of options and feeling like giving up is the best choice.

Originally Posted by Michlow

Just out of curiousity...who says that he has given up? From what I read in the article it doesn't appear that he has given up on God, or Christianity. (Which brings to mind the previous threads on Christian Garrett).

I remember the Lord speaking to me, "As long as you struggle...you win." His grace will keep you in the fight until you gain victory! If one gives up to the "oh well,...it is hopeless" attitude, then of course it is defeat and may never come back.
I counseled a UPC backslidden preacher--he asked for prayer to be restored, saying that he could not get back to his first place/relationship with God. It is dangerous to "backslide" or give up in a struggle against sin.