Anyone can crucify me if they care to, but I honestly can't remember the last "clothesline" sermon I preached. To some, I know they think that statement is from a backslidden minister. But I honestly don't care and I'm saying that arrogantly or flippantly.
How many more "dimensions" are we going to have to give people before they will be truly HOLY? Not only do we have to give them lengths of skits, sleeves etc, now we have to give them "tightness" dimensions! How in the world is THAT going to be legislated?
I understand the venting and I understand the concern from those who really think that is important. I don't think it's important and I don't apologize for it. I certainly understand why, to some, this is a core issue. However, I can tell you, from my side of the UPCI, of both being in and out of it, how thankful I am that I can focus on far more important things than how people dress.
And before any begin to think about how much immorality must be in our church folk's lives, I'll tell you that I RARELY have to deal with it in people's lives who are saved because it just rarely happens. I preach about moral purity and marital faithfulness, and yes, even mention modesty. I have found that most people are smart enough to know what modesty is without me having to give them dimensions.
I know, coming from someone who wears shorts in public, that must by a hypocritical statement to you. So be it. But we are seeing lives changed and touched by the power of God!
You are not suggesting people are facing a lot bigger problems than what should I wear this morning??? Are you??? ... or that you are ministering to those GLARING needs???
It's becoming a favorite word .... and mockery is a closed second.
So are you saying you don't agree? That men and women should be allowed to dress any way they choose to reveal their sexual nature...not their gender, so as to be carnally enticing to other members?
And if you agree with me then I have to ask why can't we agree together on this topic? Unless you just think it's not important enough, then I have to ask why are you here if for no other reason than to cause trouble? I ask the same thing of AB.
The trend of this forum is getting more and more disturbing that we can't discuss the church in all seriousness without resorting to mocking someone else's opinion and being cavalier about everything.
Does it bother you when you find out that young men and women in the church are fornicating? Just curious.....is that a serious thing or is it no big deal?
It just seems to me that much of "The church" has really given up..they talk about "gifts" and "winning souls"...but the big battles they have not only given up on. It's a battle to talk about Holy living and Holy dress already living in this world we do without people who claim to be brothers being stumbling blocks to the gravity of that situation
Should godly Christian men and women, who are spiritual not carnal, be dressing like prostitutes and gigolos in your opinion? Are you fine with Christian men and women dressing in such a way as to be sexually enticing to the opposite sex.
You are not suggesting people are facing a lot bigger problems than what should I wear this morning??? Are you??? ... or that you are ministering to those GLARING needs???
I'm suggesting that people struggle with their walkk with God no matter what we try to force them to do. No amount of forcing or laying guilt EVER, EVER gets the job done. Challenging people to go to Jesus with their struggles and to never give up and understanding that EVERYONE, even pastors struggle day to day gives them hope of victory!
Giving them an unattainable "code" NEVER gives them joy, only frustration and faux spirituality. I know that not everyone who preaches "outward holiness" is in that category, but I have seen it numerous times and have to deal with it in many people's lives.
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"Those who go after the "Sauls" among us often slay the Davids among us." Gene Edwards
So are you saying you don't agree? That men and women should be allowed to dress any way they choose to reveal their sexual nature...not their gender, so as to be carnally enticing to other members?
And if you agree with me then I have to ask why can't we agree together on this topic? Unless you just think it's not important enough, then I have to ask why are you here if for no other reason than to cause trouble? I ask the same thing of AB.
The trend of this forum is getting more and more disturbing that we can't discuss the church in all seriousness without resorting to mocking someone else's opinion and being cavalier about everything.
Does it bother you when you find out that young men and women in the church are fornicating? Just curious.....is that a serious thing or is it no big deal?
It just seems to me that much of "The church" has really given up..they talk about "gifts" and "winning souls"...but the big battles they have not only given up on. It's a battle to talk about Holy living and Holy dress already living in this world we do without people who claim to be brothers being stumbling blocks to the gravity of that situation
Anyone can crucify me if they care to, but I honestly can't remember the last "clothesline" sermon I preached. To some, I know they think that statement is from a backslidden minister. But I honestly don't care and I'm NOT saying that arrogantly or flippantly.
How many more "dimensions" are we going to have to give people before they will be truly HOLY? Not only do we have to give them lengths of skirts, sleeves etc, now we have to give them "tightness" dimensions! How in the world is THAT going to be legislated?
I understand the venting and I understand the concern from those who really think that is important. I don't think it's important and I don't apologize for it. I certainly understand why, to some, this is a core issue. However, I can tell you, from my side of the UPCI, of both being in and out of it, how thankful I am that I can focus on far more important things than how people dress.
And before any begin to think about how much immorality must be in our church folk's lives, I'll tell you that I RARELY have to deal with it in people's lives who are saved because it just rarely happens. I preach about moral purity and marital faithfulness, and yes, even mention modesty. I have found that most people are smart enough to know what modesty is without me having to give them dimensions.
I know, coming from someone who wears shorts in public, that must by a hypocritical statement to you. So be it. But we are seeing lives changed and touched by the power of God!
You know...Im not even a big "Standards" person, but you have to be to believe in dressing modestly. When and where did some go wrong to think that dressing modestly has nothing to do with modesty?
You don't have to give them exact measurements....you preach and teach modestly and live it yourself it should be apparent to them you are teaching to. You don't have to say how tight is tight, but tell them that modestly is NOT trying to reveal your sexual organs to the enticement of the opposite sex.
1Jn 2:15 Do not love the world, nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him, 1Jn 2:16 because all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 1Jn 2:17 And the world passes away, and the lust of it, but he who does the will of God abides forever.
Should godly Christian men and women, who are spiritual not carnal, be dressing like prostitutes and gigolos in your opinion? Are you fine with Christian men and women dressing in such a way as to be sexually enticing to the opposite sex.
There is NO way possible that young men and women can dress in a way that it NOT sexually enticing. The reason for that is "happy hormones!" Unless we put the women in Burkhas and that wouldn't even work. Happy hormones have x-ray vision if you will. It is God telling them to procreate. God is also telling them to procreate WITHIN the bonds of marriage so don't think I believe that happy hormones are an excuse for immorality.
Committment to purity is a protection even in the presence of happy hormones. That is what needs preached. No, I'm not giving license to dressing like "women of the night" either. The last GC I attended, I saw many young women dressed in "tight" clothing, but I didn't a single one dressed like a prostitute.
"Holy" clothing comes off just as quickly and easily as "unholy" clothing when a committment to purity has not been made in the heart. I have a plethora of holy looking UPC young people and Bible school stories to back that up. The holy look doesn't work. I'm not saying that if you believe in it, that it is a waste, I'm just saying that it doesn't keep young people pure.
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"Those who go after the "Sauls" among us often slay the Davids among us." Gene Edwards
Well, in that case...cool! You should have it done on one of those Discovery channel Health shows...that way the cost is probably covered, and we can all observe the surgery.
Okay, maybe that would be a little too much exposure....even for a liberal.
Seriously...it is rather discouraging when you lose weight and your skin doesn't pop right back to where it should.
I'm getting a total body lift!
I'd post pics, but...you know.....
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
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