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  #11  
Old 03-24-2007, 09:43 PM
mizpeh mizpeh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam View Post
Was the Apostle Paul praying that way when he said, "Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works" in his last epistle before his homegoing?
Maybe Alexander the coppersmith had died before Paul wrote this line!
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  #12  
Old 03-24-2007, 09:44 PM
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freeatlast freeatlast is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam View Post
Was the Apostle Paul praying that way when he said, "Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works" in his last epistle before his homegoing?
Kinda sounds that way to me Jim.
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  #13  
Old 03-24-2007, 10:11 PM
SDG SDG is offline
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Paul was very abrasive, and maybe even somewhat vengeful, in nature ....

Max Lucado, speculates in his book, In the Grip of Grace, that his abrasiveness might have been the thorn in his flesh.

He writes:

Whatever he learned at the feet of Gamaliel, he might have dozed of the day they discussed the topic of tact.

Before he knew grace, he had killed Christians.

After he knew grace, he grilled Christians.

Example? "When Peter came to Antioch, I challenged him face to face because he was wrong.[Gal. 2:11] Written like a true diplomat.

In Paul’s view you were either on God’s side or Satan’s , and should you slide from the first to the second, he didn’t keep it secret, “Hymeneaus and Alexander have done that, and I have given them to Satan, so they will learn not to speak against God.” [ 1 Timothy 1:20]

Everyone within range of his tongue and pen knew how he felt and knew when to duck.
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  #14  
Old 03-24-2007, 10:15 PM
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RevDWW RevDWW is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea View Post
Paul was very abrasive, and maybe even somewhat vengeful, in nature ....

Max Lucado, speculates in his book, In the Grip of Grace that his abrasiveness might have been the thorn in his flesh.

He writes:

Whatever he learned at the feet of Gamaliel, he might have dozed of the day they discussed the topic of tact. Before he knew grace, he had killed Christians. After he knew grace he grilled Christians.

Example? "When Peter came to Antioch, I challenged him face to face because he was wrong.[Gal. 2:11] Written like a true diplomat.

In Paul’s view you were either on God’s side or Satan’s , and should you slide from the first to the second, he didn’t keep it secret, “Hymeneaus and Alexander have done that, and I have given them to Satan, so they will learn not to speak against God.” [ 1 Timothy 1:20]

Everyone within range of his tongue and pen knew how he felt and knew when to duck.
________________________________

My type of guy !!!!!!!!!! ...........
Note he did it face to face not on an Public forum.......
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  #15  
Old 03-24-2007, 10:16 PM
mizpeh mizpeh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea View Post
Paul was very abrasive, and maybe even somewhat vengeful, in nature ....

Max Lucado, speculates in his book, In the Grip of Grace that his abrasiveness might have been the thorn in his flesh.

He writes:

Whatever he learned at the feet of Gamaliel, he might have dozed of the day they discussed the topic of tact. Before he knew grace, he had killed Christians. After he knew grace he grilled Christians.

Example? "When Peter came to Antioch, I challenged him face to face because he was wrong.[Gal. 2:11] Written like a true diplomat.

In Paul’s view you were either on God’s side or Satan’s , and should you slide from the first to the second, he didn’t keep it secret, “Hymeneaus and Alexander have done that, and I have given them to Satan, so they will learn not to speak against God.” [ 1 Timothy 1:20]

Everyone within range of his tongue and pen knew how he felt and knew when to duck.
________________________________

My type of guy !!!!!!!!!! ...........
The same guy who wrote 1Corinthians 13 and Roman 12:14-21
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  #16  
Old 05-25-2007, 07:59 AM
brights
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I think one needs to put himself on a situation where you cry out for justice. I prayed a prayer of vengeance for my Dad who was shot cold blooded more than 10 times on his body by 2 gunmen with a .45 caliber gun. He was dead on the spot. The gunmen escaped. I'm still in shock and mourning for my Dad's untimely tragic death. He died May 22, 2007 at 9:30am. He was 60yrs old. The promised resurrection is my only hope to see him again, to hug him tight and to say I love you Dad and I miss you so much. I'm glad my Dad accepted Jesus few months before he was murdered.

I mean, why did God allow this?? I'm so much in tears... why did God did not prevent this? Am I a bad Christian? Did I do something really wrong? I'm confused. But, I know according to scriptures, God has already ordained the number of years we shall live here on Earth and everyone has a schedule, no matter the manner of death.

It pains me so much that we live in a very wicked world. Heartless and cruel men roam about, getting hired as hitman. I hate this world and everything in it. I want to take revenge, but God said, forgive. I forgive, but I leave room for God's wrath, vengeance is His, He shall repay.

I prayed a prayer of vengeance for every bullet they shall pay a hundred fold, may God's fury vengeance be upon them. Everyone involved behind the murder of my Dad shall pay dearly and don't deserve to live.

Anyway, pray for me and my family to recover as soon as possible as we want to get on with our lives. Pray for our protection from wicked men. And pray for my Dad's swift justice and pray that all the people behind my Dad's murder shall pay dearly for what they have done.

Thank you brothers and sisters, may God bless you always.
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  #17  
Old 05-29-2007, 11:37 AM
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Sister Alvear Sister Alvear is offline
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I think our prayers should reflect to real situations. They should not be prayed when we are mad at someone. We are aslo told to pray FOR oue enemies..so the old word balance comes to my mind...we know something David did not know and that is GRACE... Grace should affect every area of our life.
We have to have as Dobson puts it. "tough love"... The flesh doesn't to much like tough love especially if we are being corrected.

Oh, wretched man that I am...Paul
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  #18  
Old 01-27-2010, 01:15 PM
DAII DAII is offline
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Re: Prayers of Vengence: May his children be fathe

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDG View Post
The psalms are filled with various songs/ prayers of vengeance. There are other similar passages scattered especially in the OT.

Sometimes it appears to a casual observer to be somewhat extreme.

I've met various brethren who read these types of Psalms and take them to heart. They are often martyrs of their own making and often quote these Psalms with fluency against all of their imagined, and sometimes real, enemies.

One passage in particular that stands out is Psalm 109.

Psalm 109

For the director of music. Of David. A psalm.

1 O God, whom I praise,
do not remain silent, 2 for wicked and deceitful men
have opened their mouths against me;
they have spoken against me with lying tongues.
3 With words of hatred they surround me;
they attack me without cause.
4 In return for my friendship they accuse me,
but I am a man of prayer.
5 They repay me evil for good,
and hatred for my friendship.


This is where it gets intense...


6 Appoint [a] an evil man [b] to oppose him;
let an accuser [c] stand at his right hand.

7 When he is tried, let him be found guilty,
and may his prayers condemn him.

8 May his days be few;
may another take his place of leadership.

9 May his children be fatherless
and his wife a widow.

10 May his children be wandering beggars;
may they be driven [d] from their ruined homes.

11 May a creditor seize all he has;
may strangers plunder the fruits of his labor.

12 May no one extend kindness to him
or take pity on his fatherless children.

13 May his descendants be cut off,
their names blotted out from the next generation.

14 May the iniquity of his fathers be remembered before the LORD;
may the sin of his mother never be blotted out.

15 May their sins always remain before the LORD,
that he may cut off the memory of them from the earth.

16 For he never thought of doing a kindness,
but hounded to death the poor
and the needy and the brokenhearted.

17 He loved to pronounce a curse—
may it [e] come on him;
he found no pleasure in blessing—
may it be [f] far from him.

18 He wore cursing as his garment;
it entered into his body like water,
into his bones like oil.

19 May it be like a cloak wrapped about him,
like a belt tied forever around him.

20 May this be the LORD's payment to my accusers,
to those who speak evil of me.



Then it mellows here ....


21 But you, O Sovereign LORD,
deal well with me for your name's sake;
out of the goodness of your love, deliver me.
22 For I am poor and needy,
and my heart is wounded within me.
23 I fade away like an evening shadow;
I am shaken off like a locust.
24 My knees give way from fasting;
my body is thin and gaunt.
25 I am an object of scorn to my accusers;
when they see me, they shake their heads.
26 Help me, O LORD my God;
save me in accordance with your love.
27 Let them know that it is your hand,
that you, O LORD, have done it.
28 They may curse, but you will bless;
when they attack they will be put to shame,
but your servant will rejoice.
29 My accusers will be clothed with disgrace
and wrapped in shame as in a cloak.
30 With my mouth I will greatly extol the LORD;
in the great throng I will praise him.
31 For he stands at the right hand of the needy one,
to save his life from those who condemn him.
__________________________________________________ _

I have some serious questions:


1.Is it right to pray this way?

2.Is it healthy to intercede in this manner?

3. How does one reconcile these type of Psalms with Christ's command to "Love thy enemy" and "Pray for those that curse you"

4. Is the Psalmist in this chapter being selfish?


Lord, have your way with the haters!
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  #19  
Old 01-27-2010, 01:27 PM
n david n david is offline
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Re: Prayers of Vengence: May his children be fathe

I've prayed and quoted "vengence" scriptures from Psalms before.
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  #20  
Old 01-27-2010, 01:41 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Prayers of Vengence: May his children be fathe

I too have prayed and quoted vengence verses from the Psalms. The way I see it, I'm just laying my case and my request for justice before God, the God who knows what is right to do. Should God not execute justice as I desired it, I don't take matters into my own hands. And if asked for forgiveness, I give it as commanded of our Lord.
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