Does no one accept responsibility any more?

[Cindy]

I believe I read or heard somewhere that Bishop T. D. Jakes orginazation has a program in place to help single women with children to prepare to find a job. This includes training in interview skills, also workshops for different careers, helping to buy clothes, and find suitable transportation so they can get out of a cycle of depending on the government. I think this is for members of his congregation, but I know he is an advocate for abused women also.

Originally Posted by Rico

The problem with this plan is that companies will no longer see the need for providing insurance coverage for its employees because they will know the employees will have the option of going on the cheaper government sponsored plan. This is how we are going to end up with nationalized insurance. Millions upon millions upon millions of people are going to lose their coverage through work because companies will simply say they can't afford it any more. A huge bureaucracy will end up being formed to handle the influx of new people to the program. Money will have to come from somewhere to pay for this new, much needed bureaucracy and the democrats will raise taxes to get it done.

McCain's plan is even worse. Right now business owners get a tax credit for paying a portion of their employee's insurance. However, with McCain's plan they loose all tax benefits they get for providing insurance. An individual tax credit is then issued to every wage earner in the amount of $2500. Without the tax benefits for paying for a portion of their employee's insurance, most businesses are expected to discontinue plans all together. McCain then wants to force all citizens to purchase individual insurance plans on the open market with the tax credit. The problem is...the tax credit isn't going to be enough for most folks, especially those with pre-existing illnesses and the elderly who are not on Medicare. Here's something else about McCain's plan...he deregulates the industry like they did the credit card industry. Right now many states have caps on premiums people can be charged by regional insurers. McCain wants to open the entire nation by busting up regional insurance groups and allowing people to buy from any insurer from any state in the Union. But here's the deal...federal law will allow insurers to charge premiums not based on the caps individual states have for their residents...but according to the maximum allowed by the state in which the insurance agency resides. Guess what...Arizona is positioning itself to lift all caps on insurance premiums. If this works like it did with the credit card industry in Delaware... we'll see insurers from all over the country move their corporate headquarters to Arizona and premiums will rise far higher throughout the US. The number of uninsured is expected to increase significantly as more and more people find that they cannot fit the bill all by themselves. This could drive up costs even more.

And to top it all off...insurers will rate applicants according to their MedFICO score...a type of health care credit score. Your premiums will be increasingly driven by this and they will even be able to deny you coverage based on bad medical credit history.

So while yes...the Democratic plan could lead to a nationally subsidized health insurance system...McCain's plan could completely turn the system into an absolute nightmare where people are forced to buy their own insurance directly and coverage is dependent upon their medical credit scores. It does nothing to cover the uninsured and therefore does nothing to eliminate rising premiums.

And about the fear of government bureaucracy in health insurance...well...they say a picture is worth a thousand words...lol

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Grasshopper, if you back and read my original post, you'll see that the entire theme was personal responsibility. That word is also in the thread title. The Bible is STRONG on personal responsibility. We are all accountable for our own actions, good/bad, smart or stupid. I am not retracting anything I originally posted. I have personally been on assistance when it was needed when I was first married. I didn't stay on it and continue to work to support my family. America is one of the only countries in the world where opportunities abound whether a person is able bodied or not.

In places like India, a disabled person can only beg. In America, they can hold down a full time job and actually do well if they have a good work ethic. America truly is the land of opportunity and there are few people, indeed, who cannot work.

Also, your descriptions of what Jesus did in the temple are only your suppositions. I am well aware of the customs of the day. Jesus was not out of control. He was perfectly in control and was ticked off at what the religious people were doing. He DID drive them out with a whip of small cords. The key word is whip. He DROVE them out. He didn't politely ask them to leave. Don't make Him out to be something that he wasn't. The Bible is clear in what it states. If He would have the ground open up and swallow the disobedient in the OT, then it is certainly within His character to whip them out of the temple.

I can see your points. But don't loose the point that Christ was attacking those who were extorting and oppressing an already poor and oppressed people. Christ was defending the weak and helpless...not telling them to wipe their noses and get a job.

I guess you could kinda say that I took some whips and shoved at you for such harsh words, especially in light of how many people are really hurting and need a little help. For example you made people turning to the government over predatory lending practices sound like whiners. Bro...government has historically protected consumers and citizens from these schemes of extortion. The government has largely turned a blind eye to rampant abuses and shady international investment schemes using these high risk mortgages...and billions of dollars have been lost because of it. You and I have even suffered...most likely your home dropped in value. You should be mad as hades asking why regulators didn't sound an alarm on the issue. In addition you should be wondering why so many lenders set a bottom line on loans to issue...even if the applicants were clearly unqualified. There is so much to this we could talk about it all night. Anyway...we should be drawing up our whips and driving out these extortionists.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Grasshopper

So while yes...the Democratic plan could lead to a nationally subsidized health insurance system.

And about the fear of government bureaucracy in health insurance...well...they say a picture is worth a thousand words...lol

We're not talking about McCain's plan right now, so let's leave that off the table for now, shall we?

Regarding what's left of your post, , the democratic plan would, not could, lead to nationally subsidized health insurance for Americans. It would also transfer the burden that companies, who are now self insured, have to bear for health costs onto private health insurance carriers. Those added costs would most certainly factor into the premiums those carriers would charge. All this plan will succeed in doing is adding more to an already overburdened system. Factor in the costs for those who are currently relying on government programs, like Medicaid, and even more of the burden gets dumped onto health insurance carriers.

The health insurance carriers aren't going to be the saviour of what is wrong with the system as it is currently. They are a big reason why we are in the mess we are in in the first place. They will still be motived by one thing, making money, because that is what they are in business for in the first place.

Originally Posted by Rico

We're not talking about McCain's plan right now, so let's leave that off the table for now, shall we?

Regarding what's left of your post, , the democratic plan would, not could, lead to nationally subsidized health insurance for Americans. It would also transfer the burden that companies, who are now self insured, have to bear for health costs onto private health insurance carriers. Those added costs would most certainly factor into the premiums those carriers would charge. All this plan will succeed in doing is adding more to an already overburdened system. Factor in the costs for those who are currently relying on government programs, like Medicaid, and even more of the burden gets dumped onto health insurance carriers.

The health insurance carriers aren't going to be the saviour of what is wrong with the system as it is currently. They are a big reason why we are in the mess we are in in the first place. They will still be motived by one thing, making money, because that is what they are in business for in the first place.

You do realize that the Democratic plan is modeled closely after that found in France and Germany as opposed to Canada right? I assume you know the differences of these systems and how they are maintained? Since other nations have used a system like this for decades without a move to nationalized insurance I'm wondering where you're getting your information and if you can give me some case studies.

I hear people googling for fast facts. LOL

We're going to move to a system with universal coverage. The question is how painful do we want the transition to be? How many have to loose coverage or suffer and die before we do?

Personally...I like the single payer system. Of course that wouldn't have a snowball's chance in Hades of passing in the US.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Grasshopper

You do realize that the Democratic plan is modeled closely after that found in France and Germany as opposed to Canada right? I assume you know the differences of these systems and how they are maintained? Since other nations have used a system like this for decades without a move to nationalized insurance I'm wondering where you're getting your information and if you can give me some case studies.

Brother, I am giving you my opinion just because that's how I see it. I realize my words are leaving you shocked and amazed at the wisdom found in them, but nobody taught them to me. Really. That's just how I see it.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Grasshopper

I hear people googling for fast facts. LOL

You don't hear me googling for anything, Bro.! I am in insurance so I think about stuff like this a lot. Again, I know my words of wisdom have you dumbfounded, but no one taught them to me.

lol

Rico, you is a hoot. lol