School Prayer Banishment was a Good Thing

[OP_Carl]

My little girl prays in school ... prayed before her state exam ... just recently ...

The following is a blog I wrote at Synadelfos:
. . .
Phillipians 4:13
13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Nice, touching anecdote? Yes.

Encouragement towards deeper spirituality and humility? Yes.

On topic? No.

[Kae]

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

The banishment of prayer in public schools in 1962 was a good thing for America.

It sounded the alert that folks ought to look in to what goes on in public schools.

And if folks become inquisitive enough, they'll discover exactly what the government schools are intended to do. Which goal, oddly enough, is not the intellectual training of children.

Our school structure and methods are modeled after the 17th century Prussian system, which was designed with the express purpose of producing loyal, patriotic, industrious, compliant, peer-oriented workers and soldiers that are incapable of questioning orders.

Our regimented school systems are NOT intended to impart sufficient critical thinking skills and knowledge to produce free-thinking individuals capable of logic and reason.

Our schools supplant logic and reason with emotion and animal instinct.

Excellent post, I have tried to explain this to people, but didn't have the right words. We are so programed to bells, we are liked trained rats and don't realize it.

I don't want government schools teaching my kids anything about religion. That's my job as a parent. I want my kids to pray over their food and do their school work.

I think some parents just wonder why their kids aren't "getting it" so they want the gubberment teachers to lead prayer and teach religion.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

OPs would take issue w/ prayers ending in the titles ... Baptists would take issue a teacher making the sign of a crucifix ...

I can only imagine the blood that would be spit among religious groups over the style of prayer IF teachers were allowed to formally lead it.

This issue is similar to the intelligent design arguments over the past few years. Only two extremes were ever offered in that debate: A godless, pure-chance, evolutionary model and a young-earth creationist view point. I personally find BOTH models offensive to me, but the young-earth creationist one the worse of the two.
As this relates to prayer, can you imagine how offended some of the more conservative among us would be if the teacher did not end the prayer with "in Jesus name we pray"? Or how would Catholics react if it did not end with "in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost...."?

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by ChTatum

If this has been addressed by someone else, pardon me, but I look at this from another point of view. If we believe that God's will is being done, scripture teaches that He has His way in the whirlwind, do we believe He allowed the decision to be no school sponsored prayer?

I, for one, am somewhat thankful the decision was made when it was. Had it not been, in this age of tolerance and all beliefs being equal, would we really want our children subjected to what might be taught?

I was wondering when someone was going to say that. The last thing I want is for the teacher to conduct some stupid ecumenical "centering" ceremony rubbing a poplar stick around a brass bowl telling us how free the birds are.

I do not want my kids exposed a prayer of the week based on all the diversity we now have in the U.S. Monday-Mong prayer, Tue-Muslim Prayer Wed-Buddah, Thu-Hindu, Friday-Christian prayer.

No way, it should start at home and would that God crush the ACLU to less than vapor!!!

[Carpenter]

I like the bumper sticker that says, "As long as there are tests, there will be prayer in school."

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

The banishment of prayer in public schools in 1962 was a good thing for America.

It sounded the alert that folks ought to look in to what goes on in public schools.

And if folks become inquisitive enough, they'll discover exactly what the government schools are intended to do. Which goal, oddly enough, is not the intellectual training of children.

Our school structure and methods are modeled after the 17th century Prussian system, which was designed with the express purpose of producing loyal, patriotic, industrious, compliant, peer-oriented workers and soldiers that are incapable of questioning orders.

Our regimented school systems are NOT intended to impart sufficient critical thinking skills and knowledge to produce free-thinking individuals capable of logic and reason.

Our schools supplant logic and reason with emotion and animal instinct.

Wouldn't you say that most of the "agenda" that troubles most of us is really driven by the Teacher's Union and not necessarily "the government?"

The "Prussian model" that you've attempted to ascribe here is a bit inaccurate. Friedrich Wilhelm August Froebel, who created the "modern" school system and coined the term "kindergarten" (children's garden" - hardly a militaristic ideal) was indeed German, but not Prussian. The Prussian militarism that you appear to dread was a product of the Teutonic Knights and the 1,000 year long German/Prussian expansion into Eastern Europe.

Froebel was a Thuringian (central Germany today, the "West" of his time) - in a completely different country from Prussia in the 1840's with a different outlook, generally speaking. Thuringia was a "hotbed" of Lutheran Evangelicalism. Essentially, they were the "Christian Fundamentalists" of their time in Europe.

Originally Posted by pelathais

Wouldn't you say that most of the "agenda" that troubles most of us is really driven by the Teacher's Union and not necessarily "the government?"

The "Prussian model" that you've attempted to ascribe here is a bit inaccurate. Friedrich Wilhelm August Froebel, who created the "modern" school system and coined the term "kindergarten" (children's garden" - hardly a militaristic ideal) was indeed German, but not Prussian. The Prussian militarism that you appear to dread was a product of the Teutonic Knights and the 1,000 year long German/Prussian expansion into Eastern Europe.

Froebel was a Thuringian (central Germany today, the "West" of his time) - in a completely different country from Prussia in the 1840's with a different outlook, generally speaking. Thuringia was a "hotbed" of Lutheran Evangelicalism. Essentially, they were the "Christian Fundamentalists" of their time in Europe.

Good point.

[Rico]

I have a question. Where do you guys learn all this stuff and how can you remember it in such detail so easily? Y'all must be some serious book geeks.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Rico

I have a question. Where do you guys learn all this stuff and how can you remember it in such detail so easily? Y'all must be some serious book geeks.

I just remembered where the word "kindergarten" came from and I have some "helps" with the details when I'm on the correct PC.

For example, I couldn't think of Froebel's name at that very moment, but I remembered "kindergarten" and that Erwin Rommel came from the same part of Germany as the inventor of kindergarten. I had "remembered" that Rommel, the famous general had been raised in a region known for its pacifism. And viola! I had a mini essay about Thuringia.

However, in composing the "essay" I concluded that I was mistaken about Rommel (he was from Wurrtemberg - clear the other side of Bavaria). Yet I could have sworn that he was from Saxony or had ties to that central region. So, this part I will keep secret lest the veneer of my mystique tarnish.