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Originally Posted by Baron1710
First and foremost it is not anyone else’s responsibility to pay for my health care. I don't get to pick anybody's pocket to pay for things I need that is stealing. We have chosen the pay-as-you-go-plan. If we go to the doctor we pay.
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Baron, my question was about taxation with health care as an example… not health care as a subject. But since you decided to comment on health care…I’ll be glad to engage the topic.
I have a newsflash for you…you’re already paying for freeloaders in the healthcare system, if you think you’re not your ignorant. You see we have nearly 50 million people without health insurance. These individuals go to emergency rooms and seek treatment when sick or injured. Then they can’t pay the bill. So hospitals and health care providers have to increase the cost of services to cover this loss. When the cost of health care increases to cover the loss from the uninsured YOUR premiums go up. As premiums go up MORE people can’t afford insurance and then they begin to add to the problem. Most of these aren’t welfare folks. Many own businesses and simply can’t afford health insurance. Some work full time jobs and can’t afford it. They’re far from free loading welfare bums. Most don’t know this. When all of this is considered, technically you’re already paying a hefty price for the uninsured! And you will pay MORE as more and more Americans opt out of health insurance because they can’t afford it. Consider that a third of this cost is administrative. A nationalized system would streamline administration thereby cutting nearly a third of the cost. Also in a nationalized insurance system the vast majority of people, except the elderly and needy, would be paying into the system. So essentially in a nationalized health insurance system the vast majority of Americans would be paying toward their health care…unlike right now where we’re fitting the bill for a vast number of the 50 MILLION who are uninsured.
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Second, those numbers are whacky. When you put people on a medical plan where they have maximum that they pay, they will run to the doctor every time they have a sniffle. The cost of providing health care will sky rocket not decrease. Other than checkups or medical releases for sports my kids have not been to a doctor in 5 years. Check your local welfare recipient and see how often their kids go to the doctor. It’s the cost of illegals and people unwilling to pay clogging up our hospitals now that is causing so much of the problem with health care prices.
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Once everyone is covered providers will be paid and premiums will drop. There will be a margin of increased health attentiveness, but that’s why it’s called “health care”. We as a society should encourage greater health awareness and care. Interestingly other countries have longer life expectancies, lower infant mortality rates, and overall better health because they are so aware of their health. In America we wait until we’re nearly immobilized before we see a doctor. By that time we have advanced conditions (diabetes, heart disease, hypertension, cancer, etc.) This means Americans are less likely to catch serious illness early. Also, since Americans wait until they are seriously ill to seek care, it costs far more to treat their illness. We like to beat our chests and grandstand here in America. We brag about how we’ve had aches and pains and never needed to seek a doctor…but in a way that’s stupid. Why? Because many of us have health issues that are brewing and we’re totally ignorant of it and won’t know until it’s become an advanced condition.
Treating the lesser symptoms (like the “sniffles”) and catching an underlying health issue before it becomes an advanced condition is a lot less expensive than treating an advanced condition that was neglected on the grounds that it only exhibited lesser symptoms.
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Socialized health care is fine if you need a band aid, but ask all those Canadians what they are going to do when they can't come over here and pay for a major surgery, because their system says, "ooops that’s all of those we are doing this year, sign up for your transplant next year maybe we can see you then." Think how sad all those Canadians will be when they don't have a free market system to fall back on. I guess our friends south of the border won't care because we already give them free health care, free market quality at the socialist price. What a deal.
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Bro…I got friends and family in Canada. My wife and I also go to Canada every year. In fact you can talk to some Canadian brethren on this very forum in the Canadian section. Most Canadians don’t think highly of America’s health care system. But while most Canadians don’t think much of our system they’re honest about their system, admitting that there are some changes needed in their system. Consider this….less than 3,000 Canadians came to American seeking health services last year. Most were seeking elective procedures that their national system doesn’t cover and found good deals here. A very small minority came here because they were denied treatment or had to wait for care. Compare….less than 3,000 Canadians came to the US seeking assistance…50 MILLION Americans are uninsured…and an estimated 18,000 Americans died last year from treatable conditions because they didn’t have sufficient coverage for treatments. Also factor in that an estimated 25,000 bankruptcies filed every year are due to inability to pay medical bills. The ol’, “Canadians love American health care”, doesn’t hold any weight when the details are considered. If you don’t believe me…let’s go to the Canadian section of this forum and talk to some Canadian brethren about health care.
I’ll be interested to see if you do…because when invited to discuss this with ACTUAL Canadians most tuck tail and never show up to talk.
Here’s the thread… if you’re willing to show up…
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...833#post444833
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And that Ladies and Gentleman is why Obama and Hillary make John McCain the lesser of those evils.
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Do you understand McCain’s proposal? McCain’s plan would strip businesses from receiving tax credits for providing health insurance and offer those credits to individual citizens. Businesses would then have no incentive to maintain coverage for employees. Most would terminate benefits and leave the employee on their own to buy health insurance. The tax credits would be enough to cover low cost plans for younger and healthier workers…but it wouldn’t be enough to cover the more expensive plans the sick and elderly would need. In fact it would only cause more Americans to opt out of having health insurance, yet these would still go to emergency rooms when sick or injured and find themselves unable to pay their bills…thereby driving YOUR premiums even higher. Of course while the numbers of the uninsured are rising and steadily inflating premiums…business and corporate interests would be free from having to shoulder the cost. McCain’s plan is a Darwinian response that results in the survival of the wealthy.
So again, back to the original question I asked…why would you oppose increasing your taxes to fund a program that would save you money?
He could be taking Viagra! You never know! 
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