Whoa! Polygamist solution is frightening...

[Newman]

Originally Posted by Ferd

you honestly think the interviews of members there are going to just tell the world that 13 year olds are getting married off?

Newman, in texas if you are sitting in the car when a friend goes into a store and robs the place, you get the same charge as the guy with the gun.

the adults in that compound all know what happens. we arent talking about a town of 500 people. they all know each other.

yes.... IF and it is a very big IF. I believe the age of consent in Texas is 16 not 14.

however, if they find no evidence of rape, then I and everyone else should be very intent on these people getting their families back.

Ferd- We call the person sitting in the car while the other commits a robbery the get away driver or the look-out person. Of course they are likewise charged with the crime.

I have less than 50 nieces and nephews. I couldn't begin to accurately tell you their ages; especially without graded schools. Why would everyone in the community know those kinds of things with certainty? And how many knew that Texas changed the law in 2005 regarding marriagable age?

Why should the whole group be charged with child abuse because of the actions of others that they did not contribute to?

And I am ASSUMING that we are talking about statutory rape not forcible rape. I am thinking that the news reports would already be screaming loud and clear if there was any evidence of unwilling brides.

Btw- I loath the system of women as property and young girls limited by this particular religion BUT there are some very important and fundamental rights at stake here (and I do believe the women could walk away with their children if they chose to).

[Newman]

Originally Posted by Ferd

Newman, in a closed environment even with a "parental consent" do you think a 14 year old has the capasity to refuse marriage?

Yes, but I doubt that they want to refuse marriage. It is high status. And it is there religion an culture. Are the many females who run wild on the streets better off?

[revrandy]

Listening to a Talk Show today they said part of the problem was the kids didn't know who their parents were...

The Authorities have had a difficult time figuring out who's kid is who's...

another thing is the men have resisted DNA testing... making it even more difficult...

and another thing it's a CULT!!!

All the homes have a one picture of Jeff's and that's it....

Kids three years old have a hard time picking out their mother.. because the men would pick out new lead wife and she would become the mother...

[Nina]

Originally Posted by Newman

A third issue would go to how responsible we should hold mothers given the environment they were themselves raised in.


Sister, how responsible should we hold the fathers, given the environment in which they themselves were raised?


A fourth issue goes to what Texas could have done to prevent this sudden trauma and upheaval of the children.

For instance having meetings with all teenagers and letting them know there was life on the outside and a way out when they wanted;

Do You really think these government haters would have gone to "meetings"? (i'm assuming You meant voluntary meetings)

and letting the community know they would be monitored regarding future marriages and collective guilt by association.

Maybe they should try this in Colorado City tomorrow



The bottom line is that I have never seen or heard of taking out a whole community because of child abuse of a few children at the hands of specific individuals. What is going on in your church or neighborhood?

Also, at what point should someone have stepped in to the Guyana situation

[Newman]

Originally Posted by The Mrs

I think this is the crux of the problem right here. From everything that I've been seeing, this group was very evasive when this first happened. They wouldn't give last names, they kept changing their names. They wouldn't give the names of their mothers or fathers. The authorities didn't know who was related to who, and which child came from which family. How could they NOT order DNA testing, and how could they leave any one of the children behind?

I think their hands were tied. They had no other choice.

No, I don't think so. Would you not claim your own children under such a crisis situation? Do we really think these mothers would not do whatever they could to claim their children? Remember the mothers we saw walking out with their weeping children?

CPS did not want to believe who went with whom, their names and ages so they could do the DNA testing and get evidence of underage births.

Understand Texas now has a vested interest in finding abuse since they have created great trauma for 432 children and they need to save face. IMO

[The Mrs]

Originally Posted by Newman

Ferd- We call the person sitting in the car while the other commits a robbery the get away driver or the look-out person. Of course they are likewise charged with the crime.

I have less than 50 nieces and nephews. I couldn't begin to accurately tell you their ages; especially without graded schools. Why would everyone in the community know those kinds of things with certainty? And how many knew that Texas changed the law in 2005 regarding marriagable age?

Why should the whole group be charged with child abuse because of the actions of others that they did not contribute to?

This is a group that is hiding. They built a PRIVATE compound out in the middle of nowhere. You would be hard-pressed to convince me that each and every adult DOESN'T know the exact laws they are trying to work around.

This entire group believes marrying girls at young ages is acceptable. It is their RELIGION. How can you possibly say some are guilty and others aren't? It's taught from the time they are born.

Originally Posted by Newman

And I am ASSUMING that we are talking about statutory rape not forcible rape. I am thinking that the news reports would already be screaming loud and clear if there was any evidence of unwilling brides.

Btw- I loath the system of women as property and young girls limited by this particular religion BUT there are some very important and fundamental rights at stake here (and I do believe the women could walk away with their children if they chose to).

And here is another problem. They won't choose to. This is their religion. Their belief. They believe this way and they get to go to heaven; they believe any different, and they will go to hell. Where is their choice?

[The Mrs]

Originally Posted by Newman

No, I don't think so. Would you not claim your own children under such a crisis situation? Do we really think these mothers would not do whatever they could to claim their children? Remember the mothers we saw walking out with their weeping children?

CPS did not want to believe who went with whom, their names and ages so they could do the DNA testing and get evidence of underage births.

Understand Texas now has a vested interest in finding abuse since they have created great trauma for 432 children and they need to save face. IMO

I realize that this is all speculation on your part, as most of the input on this thread is just speculation on my part as well. We're not there, and we don't have the access to any legal documents. Just what is being reported. I like to think that the info that's being released is fairly accurate, and not too far off the mark. Biased, yes, I'm sure. But I'm more interested in knowing the facts.

I saw a handful of mothers walking out with children. We don't know they were their own. I saw Nancy Grace talking about this situation when it first happened and she stated, 'If it were ME, and those were MY children that were torn from me, I would be RIGHT THERE next to where they are keeping them. I would be as close to them as physically possible, not back at the Ranch.'


If I were to put myself in their shoes...I would have to say I would probably have instructions from the leaders to follow in the face of such an event. And I'll bet it would be this:

Give no information.

If I were a part of this group, that knows it's operating around the laws of the land, I would try to be as evasive as possible. I can't admit anything without admitting guilt, so I wouldn't offer up anything at all.

I wouldn't keep accurate birth records that would only give someone else proof in the case of any legal action.

They probably thought this would be a good tactic, only to see it backfire on them and force DNA testing.

[The Mrs]

At this time, there are approximately 50 adults of the 175 that have submitted to the DNA testing ordered by the judge.

If they are innocent, they should all be lining up as quickly as possible.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by The Mrs

I realize that this is all speculation on your part, as most of the input on this thread is just speculation on my part as well. We're not there, and we don't have the access to any legal documents. Just what is being reported. I like to think that the info that's being released is fairly accurate, and not too far off the mark. Biased, yes, I'm sure. But I'm more interested in knowing the facts.

I saw a handful of mothers walking out with children. We don't know they were their own. I saw Nancy Grace talking about this situation when it first happened and she stated, 'If it were ME, and those were MY children that were torn from me, I would be RIGHT THERE next to where they are keeping them. I would be as close to them as physically possible, not back at the Ranch.'


If I were to put myself in their shoes...I would have to say I would probably have instructions from the leaders to follow in the face of such an event. And I'll bet it would be this:

Give no information.

If I were a part of this group, that knows it's operating around the laws of the land, I would try to be as evasive as possible. I can't admit anything without admitting guilt, so I wouldn't offer up anything at all.

I wouldn't keep accurate birth records that would only give someone else proof in the case of any legal action.

They probably thought this would be a good tactic, only to see it backfire on them and force DNA testing.

My personal experience as well as what I have witnessed from others is that these mothers have as much, or more, devotion to their cult leaders than they do their own kids. It is not hard to imagine at all.

[Nina]

Bump for Newman

Originally Posted by Newman

A third issue would go to how responsible we should hold mothers given the environment they were themselves raised in.


Sister, how responsible should we hold the fathers, given the environment in which they themselves were raised?


A fourth issue goes to what Texas could have done to prevent this sudden trauma and upheaval of the children.

For instance having meetings with all teenagers and letting them know there was life on the outside and a way out when they wanted;

Do You really think these government haters would have gone to "meetings"? (i'm assuming You meant voluntary meetings)

and letting the community know they would be monitored regarding future marriages and collective guilt by association.

Maybe they should try this in Colorado City tomorrow



The bottom line is that I have never seen or heard of taking out a whole community because of child abuse of a few children at the hands of specific individuals. What is going on in your church or neighborhood?
Also, at what point should someone have stepped in to the Guyana situation